Lame Horse!

[apprentice87]

[SIZE=medium]Hi Apache,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]What you think of the following?? It all relates to a 3 year old welsh section "D" thing, [whatever that is!] that my other half was thinking of buying from someone at the same farm as her, so my other half knows the horse quite well.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The horse has only just been broken in a bit, but is rarely ridden. Just runs about the [soft] field, apart from yesterday that is, when the owner took it for a ride along the canal. [quite stony hard ground in places][/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Anyway, here are text messages I got from my other half;[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Really disappointed. She's perfect, except for being lame in both front legs, worse on the right. Going to look at her again next week, maybe its something and nothing and will resolve itself, but not hopeful. Hoping its because she's not used to work and was ridden along the canal yesterday, so could be foot sore. She was slightly better on soft ground. But could just as easily be low grade laminitis. Unlikely to be a slip in the field or something what with it being both legs. She canters about the field with the others fine and is willing enough to walk. But I don't need two not-quite-sound horses do I[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I asked if it was a sudden thing, or had she seen it like it before.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium] I got back;[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Lameness in both front legs is harder to see than lameness in one leg, because the horse isn't favouring either - they both hurt! She's reluctant to trot and to bend to the right (inside leg takes most of the strain, so I think she's lamer on the right leg. She put up a bit of a fight with me on her, which makes sense because I weigh more than the girl who rode her first so I could see her paces. Extra weight on lame legs doesn't help. I think she may have got laminitis with the autumn flush of grass. All the talk of sudden stubborn behaviour a month or so ago, planting herself and not wanting to go forward, her education going "backwards"...you'd not want to work either if you had sore feet. It could be she'd come sound with a change of management and then never get it again. Lauren is feeding her mix (starch) and mollassed chaff (sugar) which won't be helping, nor will working her. A week on box rest eating straw may sort it, but do I want to spend 400 pounds finding out?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Do you think my other half is thinking along the right lines??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Can more or less the first time out on hard ground do this to a horse [would not have gone far] or is it a sign of "structural problems" No shoes on it mind, do not know if this makes a difference. My other half is only 8 ½ stone too…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]John…[/SIZE]

 

[misssweden]

I think your other half might be right about the laminitis. Being that she is a native breed and they tend to be more prone to this.

It could be a shoe/related issue (eg bruised soles, abcess), however this sounds like a more longterm problem. (My English fails me here but feel free to google hovbroskförbening and hovbensrotation ).

If your other half still decides to buy this mare then my advice would be to have her thoroughly vetted and get her feet x-rayed before purchase. Although this may seem like an expensive option it can save a fortune in the future, not to mention the disappointment and heart ache of buying a horse she might never be able to do much with.

 

[Apache]

The horse is young, but in recent years the importance of Cushings disease in laminitis has been realised and it's now thought that diet may be the final trigger, but the Cushings is underlying. There is free testing available currently.

http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/

I would advise to get the horse properly vetted. Could save you a fortune in the long run.

I'm interested how this plays out but one of those that is impossible to call over the internet.

 

[kerching]

I will ask my wife and get her to reply via login name

Just sleighing

 

[apprentice87]

Hi all,

Zoe, my other half says the horse walks ok, but is reluctant to trot. The owner has not had her long, and knows nothing of horses. The horse was fine up until about a month ago apparently, when the owner reports that it started to act up and did not want to go.

Now, It just so happens, that this coincides perfectly with when they started to bring the horse in and stuff it with coarse mix. Zoe says the horse has noticably put on weight as a result and that an excess of sugary stuff is more than capable of giving a horse laminitis, long before you reach the feeding levels required to cause it to put on weight.

Zoe says that as apparently the horse has been a bit strange for a month, but despite this, the underneath of the foot is still the right shape and there is no groove [i am not describing this the way she explained it to me!] at the top of the hoof wall at the front is a good sign, along with the fact that there does not seem to have been a progressive worsening.

Anyway, the horse is only £400 [complete with tack] so she is thinking of still buying it as for one thing, it is her 20 year old geldings girlfriend! [No!! honestly!!]

If she does buy it, i will keep you all informed...

In general, in a horse that has not had "structural changes" [Apache will know!] within the hoof, what is the prognosis, percentage wise??

john...

 

[Apache]

If you do nothing else get the FREE blood test done to check the horse does not have Cushings. A quote from the website I linked earlier:

f your horse is prone to laminitis it’s important to know that although grass can be a trigger, up to 90% of cases are caused by an underlying hormonal disease.1, 2 Equine Cushing’s disease (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS) are the two most common hormone or “endocrine” disorders of horses and ponies. Recent advances in our understanding of laminitis has changed our approach to the diagnosis and treatment of the problem. Despite the common perception that Cushing’s disease is solely a condition of older horses and ponies, new data shows that adult horses of all ages can also be affected by this disease.3

Cushing’s disease can be easily diagnosed by a blood test taken by your veterinary surgeon. If your horse or pony is within the 90% that do have an underlying hormonal disease, then it’s essential to reach the correct diagnosis as early as possible in order to be able to treat the laminitis appropriately and reduce the risk of future painful episodes.

'Horsey' people blame the feed for the laminitis but chances are (although it may be a trigger) something else is underlying.

 

[kerching]

Ok mrs kerching here - full respect to apache here ( hi apache ) on a non vet response here - from what you say - 1. Horse only three yrs old - pissed off at level of work required - i only expect my three yr olds to walk trot straight line on a few occcasions - too much expected

2. You mention stony track horse unshod - footsore - my mare used to struggle on stony tracks to the point where i used to get off and walk her over bad patches - not lame apart from on these tracks

3. Cushings test - not looked at the link but presume ACTH test - well worth it although cushings predominately associated ( but not exclusively ) with age - however EMS (equine metabolic syndrome ) can be a precursor to laminitis and cushings - i suggest getting an insulin test done too ( bloods)

4 laminitis can strike any age - can be assoc. with weight (cresty neck ,fat pads on the loins ,tail head and shoulders ) change in management and feed , autumn flush of grass , indeed for any number of causes

£400 is dirt cheap to buy a horse - brilliant price !

BUT

Its bloody expensive if said horse is about to go down with a life threatening illness - think vets bills - thousands ? Box rest, stabling, feeding, caring, STRESS, time , worry STRESS, no horse to ride only **** shovel for ! Worst case scenario add in humane destruction cost and carcass removal costs ------------

Get it vetted and check it out properly ( although im going for my number 1 and 2 ) xxxx

FFS....she goes on a bit doesn't she?

 

[steptoe]

I just drink more,

oh,

and for what its worth,

first wife is dead, 

]

 

[steptoe]

:slap

 

[kerching]

Canoeboy I look after Kerching very well ! I even do the drinking for him - saves him having to lift a glass to his lips ! How's that for marital dedication ? - Mrs Kerching xx

 

[steptoe]

Canoeboy I look after Kerching very well ! I even do the drinking for him - saves him having to lift a glass to his lips ! How's that for marital dedication ? - Mrs Kerching xx

now we know why its 1st wife

she wont let him poison her  :slap

we know who is boss in that house  :|

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Again,

Thanks all!! Zoe has decided she will take a chance and buy it anyway!! She says that lots of horse are prone to this sort of thing, but with proper management are ok. The underlying metabolic things; Are these progressive?? or do they just pop up at a certain level and stay like it?? The horse might be footsore, they do not usually ride it, they are only just about breaking the thing in. What i think happened is they took it for a ride thinking they would "improve" the thing, bit like taking your car for a run! I will tell her to get the blood test done, but i have an idea she is going to buy it in about 10 minutes from now!! I will still get her to have the blood test, if only for the sake of scientific interest.

Needless to say, i will report back what happens. Me, i think they are TERRIBLY expensive things.. I would rather buy a nice motorbike or a great big lathe!!!

 

[Apache]

I'm worried how much Mr Canoe knows about guns, because a 12G pistol would be a fair old beast!

IF the hose has Cushings there are ongoing medication costs - we have one horse costing in-excess of £3 per day on the medication alone...........

And it progresses and doesn't go away. Can be managed quite well

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Apache,

Someone lent me a 12 bore when i was about 14. Can still remember the bore size was stamped on the barrel; .729" which means i can now go out in the shed to the lathe and make one!  A 6" 12g eh! More than justify a visit to an osteopath after firing that! Nearly bought a .30-30 Center Contender once, that would have been about the same in the recoil stakes i suppose!

As you all know, later on I had a shotgun cert and i firearm one too. Let them run out years ago though. Would like them back too, but in the meantime i have been diagnosed with Aspergers, been in the hospital a bit too [now there's a surprise!!] so i guess they will not be renewing them anytime soon!!!

On the horsey front, Zoe still wants to buy the horse, it is her other horse's girlfriend. I think she figures that at least, [unlike some of the other prospective purchasers who are too dull to even realise it is lame] she has half a chance of managing it.

If not, The landowner [open cert!] can always use it as a backstop for his .308Win.... [shame...]

john...

 

[steptoe]

I very much doubt I would even get a permit for a water pistol these days,  :C

 

[OnOff]

Not trawled through everything above but was around horses a bit 20 years back and always thought laminitis was something to do with them eating young grass.......? Wife had a Shetland that used to be prone to it. Remember digging foul smelling stuff out of it's hooves......pretty sure Jeyes Fluid was involved too................ 

 

[Apache]

Think you are confusing thrush or a foot infection with the laminitis, although laminitis predisposes to infection of the foot.

Until recently it was thought laminitis was a disorder caused by too much sugar in the diet. Although it can be a trigger the better testing has shown underlying endocrine disease to be the main factor.