Legalisation of drugs

[phil d]

The government have admitted that they are not winning the war on drugs and there seems to be more people leaning towards the legalisation of certain drugs, I was discussing this with someone recently and he couldn't see anything wrong with the idea, I however can see a lot wrong with it.

If you've ever been unfortunate enough to have your home or vehicle broken in to the odds are it was done by someone wanting money to buy drugs, now the government seems to think that legalising drugs and making them available in chemists will somehow solve this problem, and others because they can control the quality of the 'product'.

Now my take on it is this, if you are going to spend all day off your head on drugs then you are not going to be working for a living, dole money isn't a lot, certainly not enough to enable you to fund a decent drug habit, so you are going to commit crime to pay for the drugs, that's point one.

Point two, if you are going out and committing crime to pay for your drugs then how can the government legitimately sell you drugs, knowing that the money used to buy them was obtained illegally.

Point three, if by the government controlling drug production and quality, the drugs are not going to be as potent as the ones you buy from your local drug dealer, then people are not going to buy them.

Finally, point four, currently most detections of drugs come about because you either get stopped while smoking something, or they find it either on you or in your vehicle, now if a cop sees you walking along the road smoking a joint, then how does he know if it's 'legal dope' (chemist bought) or illegal dope?

I think the  entire concept of legalising drugs is ridiculous, and will quite possibly lead to more users., what do you think?

 

[Evans Electric]

Because I'm an ancient I can remember  when there wasn't a drug problem which means I view  the problem from a different perspective . 

The preferred drug of the working classes  in Victorian times say  ,   was alcohol  & nicotine  while certain  privileged  academic classes like writers  & poets used laudanem  , magic mushrooms  or heroin .            I believe gin got the lower classes through the week . 

We had the fictitious Sherlock Holmes either  shooting up  or smoking something strange . 

As I grew up the world slowly changed :  

Where I grew up you went to the watch the Villa on a Saturday ,  we were kids .  Blokes went to the pub before & after the match  but didn't get rat faced  and football hooliganism hadn't been invented .    If they played The Blues or Albion  , no one was killed afterwards , in fact they would all be in the same pub.  So alcohol was in the equation but didn't cause a great problem  .   It was perceived behaviour that changed the way  people acted,  monkey see, monkey do.  In no time  they were fencing the fans from the pitch and from each other as they descended into tribal , lager fuelled violence . 

I'd say drugs were prevalent in Hollywood   , British show biz and around London  and virtually unknown elsewhere .  

We went to coffee bars in the city , the juke box played  a mixture of  Jazz , Folk ,  Elvis , Buddy Holly  etc  but drugs didn't seem to be on the scene .

Drug use spread rapidly with the first  wave of  British  pop groups  in the 60s  ...some you saw live  were obviously  off their heads ,  it was boasted about on TV ,  then they started to drop dead from the effects  & even now their  antics  are looked upon with a certain pride ...Oh well its only Rock n Roll  .        

The pushers who supplied them discovered a ready market of teenagers whom they could fleece  money from  and turn into zombies  who would sell their mothers for the next fix .  

Drug use was and still  is talked about with a certain smug  pride  ..it moved kids onward from the crafty fag behind the school bike sheds   ...( look how clever we are )    to a state of normality with them .  

" Well a spliff don't hurt ya "!       Tell that to my neighbour , 50 yrs old,   he never sleeps and drifts in & out of psycotic moods   . ( my spelling )      

When I think of the  pond life  in the city now  that crawls from under it's stone and  hooks your beloved son or daughter  into the downward spiral of drug  addiction  then drives off in his blacked out  windowed BMW to the murky half world of his useless existence ........  I crave for a powerful assault  rifle .     

  To legalize drugs could possibly work , I really don't know ,  I'm wondering if it would remove the  ..(Oooh look how cool I am coz I'm off my head every weekend ) syndrome , the behind the bike sheds syndrome  or  the "One of the in crowd " syndrome . 

It drags society down to the level of the gutters ,   the district next to me  has a lot of white trash  ( sorry buts thats how it is )  the kids bunk off school all the time , hang around the streets  looking threatening  , nicking stuff , drinking cheapo lager  ....cars cruise around the area , pull in , window down ...over come the kids looking cool as they openly deal  .   No black kids as its an NF area .     Give it a few years and the council will be shovelling them up off the street I'm afraid .      last week they burned down their own boozer .       

 

[Sharpend]

Well like tobacco was the drug of choice through populism for many years, todays current drugs are the same, maybe in a hundred or so years it will be taught widely that it is in fact harmful and then it will be replaced by something else. 

However I know this, for many many years governments made a lot of money  off the back of tobacco through taxes, so can’t help but think that it’s not a case of we’ve lost the fight so legalise it to make it ‘safe’ or more ‘controlled’ but more of an opportunity to raise much needed money through taxes. ??

heres the reality, you will never win the war on drugs all the time you allow those further up the food chain to use it openly and knowingly and do nothing about it. How many stars and celebrities are known users of drugs and never do you see them in jail, I think I can only remember one? Apparently the justification is they use it because if the lifestyle they lead-  it’s a coping mechanism ( that’s an excuse). 

If it’s wrong then it’s wrong there are no excuses and wrong doesn’t differentiate between people, people differentiate between perceived levels of wrong. 

By allowing wrong to be right for just one person allows wrong to be right for all. 

I say we should get stronger with society as a whole, you do wrong you get punished isn’t that what is/was taught to children growing up, so when did it change and become acceptable to do wrong? 

 

[Evans Electric]

I say we should get stronger with society as a whole, you do wrong you get punished isn’t that what is/was taught to children growing up, so when did it change and become acceptable to do wrong? 

I don't know but it DID change , along with all that stuff about not having competitive sports  in school because losing a race might affect them for ever .   

 

[binky]

The police just have better things to do than prosecute drug users - it's the criminal gangs they really want to target and take down, but have failed to. 

Decriminalisation - remembering drugs only became illegal in the 70s, should, in theory destroy the profits of the illegal gangs, and also raise taxes. I used to be in favour of this, I'm not so sure I am now because of the changed nature of things like cannabis which has become super strong 'skunk'.  I don't know of any of you have been watching the Narcos series on Netflix, but one of the major issues making drugs illegal has caused is the very change in the nature of drugs. Old fashioned cannabis is bulky and heavy, making it harder to smuggle, so the drugs cartels moved to supplying cocaine and super strength cannabis because it's much smaller and lighter to ship, and worth a lot more money - think carrying a bottle of Vodka compared to a small barrel of beer. This has also meant't the drug dealers have pushed the more harmful drugs. Also being illegal makes it 'naughty' and there's always been an attraction for not doing what the government tells you..

So in short I think decriminalising original style cannabis, make it legal to 'grow your own' may be a good thing. I'm not convinced it would lead to more drug taking of stonger substances, possibly quite the opposite - why bother with Heroin, when you can have cannabis?. It should also reduce crime, and more importantly, destroy the proceeds of crime. Holland has had lack drug laws for years, not exactly gone to 'rack and ruin' have they? Canada has legalised small quantities of Cannabis quite recently - perhaps someone with more time can have a look at what affect this has had on Canada. Hemp is legal in certain USA states (they used to grow it for rope and smoke it - not the rope that is). The other thing about legalisation, is that quality is controllable, one of the biggest issues with illegal drug supply is that it is often cut with other things, like horse tranquillisers, bleach, cement etc etc which are far more harmful than the drugs. It would also destroy the market for 'legal highs' which are truly awful chemicals. 

So the pragmatic side of having failed the war on drugs, is the government needs a change of policy to manage the issue. Bit like prohibition failed, but didn't half make the Mafia rich!

 

[Sharpend]

you seem to know a lot about this topic  :Stir: :C

 

[Blue Duck]

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

 

[binky]

you seem to know a lot about this topic  :Stir: :C

I used to smoke cannabis,  and occasionally brew mushroom beer (so good even Eastenders was watchable) packed that in 30 years ago - s'funny how I'm still addicted to nicotine, the legal bit. But mostly I am a pragmatist, and watch current affairs a lot. So when a 'war' is lost, you need plan B, or shed load more police to enforce plan A,

CBD oil is now legal (cannabis with the THC  'high ' bit removed) which should be good for many ill people.  And don't forget Opium has been very useful for anaesthetic for decades. 

 

[binky]

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

I had forgotten about Portugal - very intresting article.

I did watch a documentary many years ago - Spanish doctor I think, who fed up with seeing junkies in the market square worked out a way to get an addict through the 'cold turkey' without pain.

 

[Phoenix]

Its the age old question.... how far should goverment go to protect people from themselves, but there is more to it than that, any U-turn would be seen as an aknowledgement that it is not that bad afterall and probably quite safe which is far from true, plus with a state healthcare system, people damaging themselves does cost the taxpaper money (although we perhaps shouldn't dwell too much on that point, otherwise banning motorcycles starts to look like a good idea!)

Even if you consider something considered relativly safe such as cannabis, while it does cause some folk some issues (dekes neighbour), one could be forgiven for thinking on the whole its a lot less hamful than tobacoo or alcohol. But what if you looked beyond the person who consumes it... from what I've heard a disproportione number of those who commit terrorist acts (both middle eastern and right wing) are known to be users of it, it's almost like under certain circumstances, the paranoia side of it is a contributing factor to them latching onto extreme viewpoints, or course it doesn't 'make people terriosts' in its own right, other factors have to exist as well

 

[Andy™]

government are probably wanting to legalise it so they can tax it

 

[Evans Electric]

There are strange things going on in the world today  . 

Poppy fields could be burnt to the ground  each year , it doesn't happen because the price of opiates would rocket and cause even more crime . 

What was that business about the Lockerbie  Pan Am  air crash ?    It was claimed that it was loaded with heroin  for reasons of keeping the street price down in the US.

The crash site  was crawling with CIA operatives  immediately afterwards.       

Or its allowed in prisons to keep the inmates  from rioting  .        Much like the importance of television stopping the population from thinking too much  & taking to the streets  in protest .  

 

[phil d]

when you see the state some people end up in through drugs it's heartbreaking, I,ve seen some really attractive looking girls get hooked on drugs, within a year or two they look haggard and a right mess, a lot of them end up selling their bodies for very little, all to get money for their next fix.  Recently I heard that not content with producing stronger skunk, a number of drug producers are now adding harder drugs, cocaine and heroin, to the water used to grow the cannabis, this ends up in the plant, not only giving you a bigger hit, but also making it more addictive and also more likely that you'll end up on harder drugs.

As well as locking these dealers up for a very long time, ideally on bread and water, if I had my way, if they had daughters over 16, then I'd get them addicted to drugs too, then see how their drug dealing parents feel when it's their kid selling her body on the streets to fund a habit.

I know it sounds harsh, but that's the way it is, we need something to make these people see how bad drugs are, all they see is a way of making easy money regardless of how much misery they cause.

 

[Sharpend]

when you see the state some people end up in through drugs it's heartbreaking, I,ve seen some really attractive looking girls get hooked on drugs, within a year or two they look haggard and a right mess, a lot of them end up selling their bodies for very little, all to get money for their next fix.  Recently I heard that not content with producing stronger skunk, a number of drug producers are now adding harder drugs, cocaine and heroin, to the water used to grow the cannabis, this ends up in the plant, not only giving you a bigger hit, but also making it more addictive and also more likely that you'll end up on harder drugs.

As well as locking these dealers up for a very long time, ideally on bread and water, if I had my way, if they had daughters over 16, then I'd get them addicted to drugs too, then see how their drug dealing parents feel when it's their kid selling her body on the streets to fund a habit.

know it sounds harsh, but that's the way it is, we need something to make these people see how bad drugs are, all they see is a way of making easy money regardless of how much misery they cause.

An injection of their own and as it wears off a bullet?

I thinks that may reduce numbers?

 

[binky]

when you see the state some people end up in through drugs it's heartbreaking, I,ve seen some really attractive looking girls get hooked on drugs, within a year or two they look haggard and a right mess, a lot of them end up selling their bodies for very little, all to get money for their next fix.  Recently I heard that not content with producing stronger skunk, a number of drug producers are now adding harder drugs, cocaine and heroin, to the water used to grow the cannabis, this ends up in the plant, not only giving you a bigger hit, but also making it more addictive and also more likely that you'll end up on harder drugs.

As well as locking these dealers up for a very long time, ideally on bread and water, if I had my way, if they had daughters over 16, then I'd get them addicted to drugs too, then see how their drug dealing parents feel when it's their kid selling her body on the streets to fund a habit.

I know it sounds harsh, but that's the way it is, we need something to make these people see how bad drugs are, all they see is a way of making easy money regardless of how much misery they cause.

so that's a good argument for legalisation and control???

 

[Doc Hudson]

It also has to be taken into account that not all serious regular drug users are society low-life. Some are actually well educated highly paid professionals in high profile jobs. The problem has no easy solutions, but the continual reduction in police force man-power must be having a significant impact on the success rate of combating every level of crime. So as the deterrent factor is negligible, is it surprising what the net result is,  Its hardly rocket-science.  

Doc H.

 

[Sharpend]

It’s the breakdown in discipline and respect that will be the demise of society, nothing more nothing less, everything else is just an excuse. Without either you are left with anarchy. 

 

[binky]

then those that rule this country need to learn how to set an example. All I see is greed, self serving interests, clubs for young men that involves getting very drunk trashing restaurants and tango'd pigs - yet daddy keeps them out of jail,  arrogance, fraud and deceit (and that's the short list). Is it any wonder other parts of society behave the way they do.

 

[Sharpend]

Nail on head. 

One of of the worst things in my opinion was the televising of parliament. 

As children we are taught we must behave, must not taunt jeer goad others, we must respect others around us, then you see a bunch of so called adults responsible for leading our country acting like infancy children whilst allegedly being responsible with our future? Oh and they have the teacher to control them - Bercow?

Is it any wonder there’s anarchy? I couldn’t imagine this behaviour by responsible adults with authority in any other situation - court room, Doctors practice, The heads of the police (other than at their Ball), the army officers etc etc? And yet these bunch of toddlers think they can and should, then appear straight faced and serious on Telly interviews to tell the rest of us how this behaviour by others in our society is wrong? 

 

[binky]

old school arguing. I went to a grammer school, it wasn't much different at times. It does still strike me as appalling behaviour for adults that are suppossed to lead the country