Lighting variations

[NozSpark]

I'd go with sidey on this,,, I guess that they think that you might have a good understanding of electrical principles and how simple circuit work so they thought that you'd benefit from being taught DOL and star delta motor circuits,, that is something I've never been taught

 

[steptoe]

I often do lighting(esp upstairs) with the spider method,

I use an enclosure with a DIN rail and some proper connectors tho,

not just lash it in with block connectors like prodave!

 

[ProDave]

I use an enclosure with a DIN rail and some proper connectors tho,not just lash it in with block connectors like prodave!

I don't just lash it in with choc blocks. I use Screwits. But then you knew that

 

[NozSpark]

I thought it was twist and tape ; ) ; )

 

[bhamoggy]

I may have worded the motors wrong.

The first 5 months of this year on level 3 was spent on motor variants and DOL etc

I realise how useful that is but surely we should have been taught more about things like lighting which I'm probably going to see more of onba day to day basis

Worthing college has been poor over the entire 3 years

Spider method ???

Never heard of that

 

[Zeespark]

Level 3 is mostly theory, the lighting should have been taught during your Level 2 moggy.

AndyGuinness

 

[Megaohm7]

I may have worded the motors wrong.The first 5 months of this year on level 3 was spent on motor variants and DOL etc

I realise how useful that is but surely we should have been taught more about things like lighting which I'm probably going to see more of onba day to day basis

Worthing college has been poor over the entire 3 years

Spider method ???

Never heard of that

I hope you have a look at a few of the lighting diagrams that you'll find on the downloads section and that you'll find them useful. You'll find though that you'll learn something everyday but your days at college will give you a reasonable idea of working out different systems that you will come across. I've asked lots of questions on the forum and I've had some great advice and I've learned from it too. The real education in this trade is being on the tools! No college prepares you for the various scenarios that you will come across but the interesting part is working out what is what. I've done some sketches before of an idea for a lighting circuit just to see if it is possible, plus it doesn't go bang on paper!! but it did help me get an idea of how it would work.I've done the spider system for 7 outside lights before and I used Wago connectors in a suitably sized adaptable box and it all looked very neat too.

 

[NozSpark]

The thing is, lighting is a very simple circuit,,,

Just a supply, switch and load

So if you imagine a lighting circuit looped at the rose,,, now move the rose to where the switch is whilst leaving the light where it is,,,, and there you go!

 

[kme]

Thanks Noz - think thats where I was (tiredly) trying to get to on page 1.

Sorry bhamoggy, I really wasn`t "getting at" you.

As Snakehips says: I don`t HAVE names for the ways of doing stuff.

e.g. 2 way lighting. I could be converting an existing, or fitting new. I might want to allow for the possibility that they`ll want IM switching in the future. We might be using 6242 or 6491 or 6243. The interplay of ALL those variables will affect what "method" I use - there isn`t a "right" and "wrong" way, which is what I think I meant before......if it does what it was intended to do, then it must be right.

 

[NozSpark]

and KMEs right,,, there is no right or wrong way,,, it either works or it doesn't and it's either safe or it isn't...

In the past I've probably use spider, loop at switch and loop at rose all in the same circuit,,, you just have to get to understand how it works,,, I also do 2 way switching with only 1 x 3c&e at each switch and back to the rose pretty often especially on rewires

 

[Doc Hudson]

I am not sure every circuit has a real name as such. Just wire appropriate to the installation requirements surely? Live - Switch - Load - Neutral. (earth to everything), I can't see a problem myself? As long as you understand the basics of electrical science and circuit continuity. What about those circuits with PIR's or Timers, do they have a name?

Doc H.

 

[Evans Electric]

Stick with us Moggy, no ones having a go at you .

Lets see ...3 plate you have done ,,which is T/E looped to every light fitting and a switch drop.

I often do it at the switches ,same thing , sometimes it makes life easier.

"Traditional method " Singles , loop feeds at the switches , loop neutrals at the lights , much slower to install on housebashing as really its how you wire through conduit.

"Spider" wiring is basically a big box in the middle with feeds and switch wires radiating out and all cobbled up in the box.

Interestingly , a council next to B,ham , Sandwell , would not accept 3 plate wiring , they deemed it unsafe to have a permanent live at the ceiling rose !!!!

But that was just them, no connection with the real world.

They were also specifying steel conduit on new build masionettes, you couldn't get a full length of tube in the room , ridiculas .

 

[ProDave]

Just wire appropriate to the installation requirements surely? Live - Switch - Load - Neutral. (earth to everything), I can't see a problem myself? As long as you understand that basics of electrical science and circuit continuity. What about those circuits with PIR's or Timers, do they have a name?Doc H.

I think that was my original concern, that people are leaving college WITHOUT that basic understanding of electrical science and circuit continuity. A fact that worries me if they are designing and installing circuits not by understanding them, but parrot fashion repeating the one model circuit they were taught.

I feel the colleges are under performing in this respect, and the poor students are the ones who will suffer and find it hard due to the apparant failings of the colleges in this case.

 

[androiduk2002]

Dave ,

I fully agree and have had a similar discussion with lecturers at my college , but in all fairness they do the best they can do , colleges are run like business's they have to make a profit so they have limitions , during my 2 years we have used and reused cable , back boxes , pvc/steel conduit , switch plates , in fact everything , nothing gets thrown away until it is well and truely scrap.

Its not an ideal way of providing the training we need but its part of the process I think alot is on the NVQ part that is based on real life as it happens training , but as I know alot of people havent actually done the NVQ because very few companies are hiring apprentices / trainees at present.

I for one have said I want to do it the "proper way" Level 2 , Level 3 , NVQ , AM2 this giving me the best possible start in the trade , but in reality am I going to be able to ? Who knows only time will tell , one of the reasons I believe I will struggle , is , as an adult learner to much focus is being put on the younger students, the modern apprenticship is based on 16 - 20 year olds and the going pay rate is

 

[steptoe]

Android, to play devils advocate here,

Surely it makes no difference what age you are, or your family circumstances,

An employer will only pay for your knowledge and ability, if you dont know enough to make him money then he will pay less.

 

[androiduk2002]

Android, to play devils advocate here,Surely it makes no difference what age you are, or your family circumstances,

An employer will only pay for your knowledge and ability, if you dont know enough to make him money then he will pay less.

I would like to think that is the case , but as the apprenticeship scheme is so I am told goverment funded , so they might not even actually pay them , which would any business man choose ? A person who has to be paid or you get paid to employ at

 

[batty]

Thats a very rude avatar.

 

[bhamoggy]

Has anyone found a diagram showing the spider method they can share?

 

[steptoe]

put a dot on a piece of paper, then draw a line out to each light fitting (or switch), and one back to the source.

there you go, thats why its called a spider method,