Little rant

[green-hornet]

All electricians who are currently registered with a Part P scheme provider should in my opinion be entitled to a discount or refund.

Why?

Well, we have taken the steps to ensure that what we do is above board, and we have embraced the initial concept that the government intended, in making all electrical work in domestic properties accountable and safe whilst being fully compliant with all building regulations.

However as we all know there has, or has never been ,any drive by any scheme provider to advertise these requirements, a fact borne out, by the fact that the general public are totally unaware of this requirement.

The act of allowing limited scope as allowed untrained persons, to carry out complex electrical installations, and be fully backed by an organisation that is pertaining to be for the better in regards to electrical safety.

The domestic installer scheme has been vastly abused far from its intended purpose, by allowing persons with limited knowledge, but of average intelligence to attain recognition under the various scheme providers as domestic installers, who have no practical or formal training.

The results of this inability to ensure only trained electricians are granted the Part P recognition is shown by the increase in registrations across the board.

Some untrained electricians have made some very basic mistakes in domestic installations that would not have been made if they had received proper training.

These include fitting 32 amp mcb over current protection to radial circuits wired in 2.5mm and being less than 2 mtrs in length. This mistake is due the the fact that most believe that 2.5mm cables require 32Amp protection and 1.5mm cables require 6 amp protection.

Another result of untrained personnel being admitted to the competent persons schemes is the fact that no initial calculations are done on cable sizes or protection devises. They show an inability to instantly or instinctively recognise a fault on a basic level.

This would result in them costing the client more money if charged by the hour, than a trained electrician who would know where to start any fault finding procedure.

Part P for all those who where required to join to continue their business is a major let down.

It has increased competition and reduced rates far lower than what should be acceptable.

For an example I will use the case of a BT engineer call out.

Phone not working

BT engineer cost to turn up

 

[NozSpark]

In some ways I agree, but in others I don't..

While it is frustrating having to go out and repair dodgy DIY or "other" electrical problems I do not feel that it is only the scheme providers to blame.

I think that the government should have been much more proactive when Part P and the competent persons schemes were devised.. I also think that Part P is far too complicated and weak - to me it should have said that anyone can change accessories and that only registered persons can add to an installation or change CU's

BTW BT charge

 

[L-E_Fault]

I think the Part P needs to be advertised on TV and in the papers whats the point if its only tradesmen that know about it. It seems the government have only done half a job with it, the public need to know that electrical work can be just as dangerous as gas work, and therefore must use qualified electricians.

"What about the 1 week wonders who are Part P registered?" I here you cry. This is where the work needs to be done. Maybe a Part P ID card with different gradings so a kitchen fitter would have a grade D which would initial him to do minor electrical work and a fully qualified electrical would be Part P Grade A which would entitle him to do all domestic work. The individual would have the prove his competence and the scheme providers need to be harsh but fair who they let in and on what grade they are given.

But again this would only work if the public become familiar with Part P and its given the same respect as Corgi/Gas Safe.

Unfortunately it may take a few more deaths and major incidents before the government pull there finger out and finish the job they started, making homes safer.

Tim

 

[Andy™]

part p is a complete waste of time. so far its done very little to improve things. something similar was mentioned in a thread a few week back about advertising - a story inside a TV program was one option. people with no formal qualifications should not be allowed to do anywork (i.e kitchen fitters, bathroom fitters)

 

[sarni31]

I was watching that Better Homes program last night.. a full house refurb.

It clearly stated dont touch the gas or electrics with a barge pole but get a qualified proffessional in to do the work ; \

Whats wrong with that you say ?

No mention at all of any scheme providers or part P

and after a phone call I had from a customer regarding a 'qualified spark' being unable to provide a cert for a partial re-wire .. X(

it seems things are not improving:| :|

 

[Dane]

I agree with the above.

I have done refrigeration previosly as well as electrical. and this has only just gained a "competant" persons scheme. via a simialr thing as Part P but it is known as F GAS and there is different catagorys in F GAS, ie F GAS Cat 1 , carry out anything, F Gas 2... restriction on amount of refrigerants used etc etc You cant just walk in get the F Gas walk out though, you need to have a refrigeration qualification.

Which is a brilliant idea, and is actually working already.

There is ONE competant person scheme known as REFCOM and the government have said there will be no other scheme allowed, this is the only one you can go through and its

 

[Evans Electric]

Part P is a half hearted mish-mash. They should have gone for :- All domestic electrical work should be carried out by a registered (competent) electrician. He should be registered with NIC, ECA,ELECSA etc.

But then they complicate it with :- Unless its the kitchen or bathroom where you can use a carpenter or general builder or plumber who has done a short course but he must'nt do anything anywhere else .

If you want all your sockets and switches changed to that nice looking chrome stuff from B&Q, you can do it yourself or ask the milkman , and if you put the red or it may be brown in the earth terminal you can have lovely live metal plates all over the house. !!!

Also if you are a competent electrican or highly qualified HND engineer in electrical engineering but are not registered , you cannot do any work in a house whatsoever. !!

We all know that millions of jobs are never registered if there is no LBC involved.

 

[Lee321]

sparkying really is at the bottom of the technical services pile imo now.

 

[Evans Electric]

I also wonder if the different providers will eventually become one as with the gas. Zurich Insurance dropped out , ELECSA is now part of the ECA etc.

There was a competent list in existance that could have been used, the JIB grading scheme. JIB was formed by the ECA and the Electrician's Union if memory serves.

 

[binky]

What it requires is to shop the *******s to the appropiate authorities - do i like doing this NO, but only when the untrained gits are driven out by fines/jail/publicity will things really change. Problem is no one likes being a 'grass', but unless we police our trade, it will continue. Not a popular attitude I know, but I feel it is the only way. A local spark has been driven almost out of business by poor reputation - he should have been done legally (I've seen his handiwork), which means he spent at least 2 years being dangerous.

 

[Lee321]

What it requires is to shop the *******s to the appropiate authorities - do i like doing this NO, but only when the untrained gits are driven out by fines/jail/publicity will things really change. Problem is no one likes being a 'grass', but unless we police our trade, it will continue. Not a popular attitude I know, but I feel it is the only way. A local spark has been driven almost out of business by poor reputation - he should have been done legally (I've seen his handiwork), which means he spent at least 2 years being dangerous.

didn't someone try this and even tho the work was not to the regs it was deemed not likely to have caused a fire or shock so was dropped.

headbang

 

[green-hornet]

didn't someone try this and even tho the work was not to the regs it was deemed not likely to have caused a fire or shock so was dropped. headbang

Yes, no building control will prosecute unless the installation is deemed to be dangerous.

Again a mockery of the system.

Thanks everyone who has aanswered very revealing Applaud Smiley

 

[jibspark]

do many of you that are registered with a scam receive business from them? ie can clients looking for a spark on the nic website get your details?

 

[green-hornet]

do many of you that are registered with a scam receive business from them? ie can clients looking for a spark on the nic website get your details?

All scheme providers have the details of all their own electrical contractors for people to find the nearest electricians.

The electrical safety council have a link to all competant persons from all scheme providers.

 

[Lee321]

do many of you that are registered with a scam receive business from them? ie can clients looking for a spark on the nic website get your details?

they do list you but i bet hardly anyone gets work as a direct result

 

[jibspark]

the thing is, all my work is minor jobs, fault finding, and some visual and periodic inspections, at the moment thats not from choice its just how the calls are comming in.

on the odd occasion i turn down installing a new cooker but thats about it.

it would be nice to register with a scam but why would i do it and pay

 

[Lee321]

the thing is, all my work is minor jobs, fault finding, and some visual and periodic inspections, at the moment thats not from choice its just how the calls are comming in.on the odd occasion i turn down installing a new cooker but thats about it.

it would be nice to register with a scam but why would i do it and pay

 

[batty]

I submit about 40 or 50 part p certs a year. It would not be cost effective to not be in a scheme for me personally.

Batty