Moral dilemma ...

[Danny]

Well maybe not so much a dilemma but just a reason to fume a bit ...

My outlaws have just had their bathroom done to the tune of several thousand pounds ... They didn't ask me to do the sparks work as the plumber had his own guy and they had used him for years blah blah ...

Anyway, existing bathroom only had a single pendant but now has nice light fitting, additional lit and heated bathroom mirror and an extract fan with humidistat ... all very nice but then just out of curiosity I asked to see the EIC .. didnt get one .. explained about notifiable work, modifying circuit in special locations and so on .. and apparently the plumber says it isnt because there is no new final circuit ... cue fume X( they're the type that pay way over the odds for everything anyway but it just grates a bit to think this guy can't go the final small step and get the boxes ticked .. not going to go on about it with them though ... no smiley for banging your head against a brick wall ..

 

[Andy™]

its probably a complete waste of time, but report them to LABC and your scam provider. possibly trading standards

 

[green-hornet]

its probably a complete waste of time, but report them to LABC and your scam provider. possibly trading standards

I would do the same, the work is notifiable.

These are the very people who have to be stopped from doing the work as they just flout the regulations.

However they will only ever send to trial only dangerous installations.

 

[Danny]

Well this is it ... i'm half tempted but imagine the grief from SWMBO and the outlaws cos they'll know right away where it was generated from ... they've asked me to do their outside power and lights later this year and i'm tempted to make my excuses ... I haven't seen it yet but they've said nothing about supp bonding and I know the house CU is all MCB no RCD ... honestly they drive me mad and I'm sposed to be currying tonight with Mrs Danny, give it a couple of beers, good old whinge and then bam top row ... i can see it all now .. :|

 

[a1]

no smiley for banging your head against a brick wall ..

There is now mate, - Just for you...

headbang headbang headbang headbang

 

[Danny]

Oh fab! .. Nice one Admin ... and get this, they've just told me the same guy is doing their kitchen soon as well! I'm sure he'll come up with an excuse for not notifying half a dozen new points, lights and cooker circuit too ! headbang

 

[septiclecky]

Oh fab! .. Nice one Admin ... and get this, they've just told me the same guy is doing their kitchen soon as well! I'm sure he'll come up with an excuse for not notifying half a dozen new points, lights and cooker circuit too ! headbang

Are your outlaws breaking the building regs as well by not making sure the LABC where notified because it is their property that is having the work done on?

 

[green-hornet]

Are your outlaws breaking the building regs as well by not making sure the LABC where notified because it is their property that is having the work done on?

Yes they are part of the resposibility is the person who orders the work to make sure its done correctly and under part p is their responsibility to ensure building control are notified.

Under this ruling I would tell your inlaws outlaws that they could be held responsible and should demand a certificate and building compliance.

 

[batty]

This does make you cross the fact that they did not insist you did the work. My mother had her kitchen refitted a few years back and she insisted I did the work. But I suppose as it was your inlaws its not quite the same but I would be cross if I was you. Print of the part p document and give it too them to show they should have had a certificate.

Batty

 

[Andy™]

well this just goes to show what public know about part p - even with a spark in the family, they still get someone else to do the work, dont have a clue they should have any certs & building notices, and still dont care much that it is them (not necessarily the spark) who is in breach of the law (anyone else think it should be the responsibility of the person doing the work, not the person ordering the work?)

his 'get out' clause there could be 'well we told the customer to notify LABC to get certs'

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

its probably a complete waste of time, but report them to LABC and your scam provider. possibly trading standards

oh dear still not understanding basic principals of who can complain about what!

It is the person who has had the work done who has to complain..

Not a third party!

Formal investigations and evidence would be needed for a prosecution..

But if the home owner refuses access to to the disputed works for any investigations or refuses to uphold a compliant...

then there is NO CASE TO ANSWER!!!!

Just as I cannot claim on someone else insurance..

I cannot complain about someone else work that has no direct connection with myself

:|

which is why many homeowners don't complain because its normally a friend of a friend who did the non-compliant work!

 

[green-hornet]

Not going to quote you special but there is a truth and a myth in your post.

Any formal complaint must come from the person who orders the work. However the scheme providers have realised that Part P is in failure mode and would like to impliment the rules with some vigour, as such they now have a system in place for any Part P registered person to report any work they suspect has been carried out by persons who do not belong to any scheme, so they can see to what extent this work is being carried out.

All the scheme providers will take your claims seriously, and the only way it will work is if you all complain at every oppertunity.

All complaints have to be logged and any action taken also has to be logged, so we can make them take action, after all its your money you pay to be a member of a scheme, if the scheme allows un registered people to do work then lets all not pay and carry on as we see fit!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Well maybe not so much a dilemma but just a reason to fume a bit ... My outlaws have just had their bathroom done to the tune of several thousand pounds ... They didn't ask me to do the sparks work as the plumber had his own guy and they had used him for years blah blah ...

Anyway, existing bathroom only had a single pendant but now has nice light fitting, additional lit and heated bathroom mirror and an extract fan with humidistat ... all very nice but then just out of curiosity I asked to see the EIC .. didnt get one .. explained about notifiable work, modifying circuit in special locations and so on .. and apparently the plumber says it isnt because there is no new final circuit ... cue fume X( they're the type that pay way over the odds for everything anyway but it just grates a bit to think this guy can't go the final small step and get the boxes ticked .. not going to go on about it with them though ... no smiley for banging your head against a brick wall ..

Ask the plumber where the certificate is for COMPLIANCE WITH BS7671?

that still applies to ALL work!

maybe remind both the Plumber..

his alleged spark??? (or should that be ... 'yee haa get ya cowboy boots out')..

and your outlaws...

of a few points as follows:-

Guidance to ensure safety for

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Not going to quote you special but there is a truth and a myth in your post.Any formal complaint must come from the person who orders the work. However the scheme providers have realised that Part P is in failure mode and would like to impliment the rules with some vigour, as such they now have a system in place for any Part P registered person to report any work they suspect has been carried out by persons who do not belong to any scheme, so they can see to what extent this work is being carried out.

All the scheme providers will take your claims seriously, and the only way it will work is if you all complain at every oppertunity.

All complaints have to be logged and any action taken also has to be logged, so we can make them take action, after all its your money you pay to be a member of a scheme, if the scheme allows un registered people to do work then lets all not pay and carry on as we see fit!

Quite so GH..

but TBH so what?

a great big complaints book won't do a fat lot.

Without access to a property and a witness to testify that the said works were carried out by the reported spark...

there is NO LEGAL CASE to answer.

If an electrician denies he ever went to a property, its just here-say and gossip, if there are no facts or witness to testify he did.

Part P scheme providers still have to work with English Law.

they can collate statistics about "alleged" breaches till the cows come home, (Apache will tell you what time that is) but they will be unable to enforce anything without facts and formal evidence...

If 20 people decided to make random spurious complaints about your work being non-compliant etc etc...

you could have them for deformation of character..

unless they have evidence to back up their case..

And a scheme provider, (any one of them), cannot take action on here-say evidence..

Or we can all sue them for deformation of character and detrimental effects on your business etc etc..

Facts & Evidence is need... not just complaints!

unfortunately because most people don't like complaining, evidence only comes to light with a tragedy such as the "Bath incident"

:|

 

[green-hornet]

True

However changes have to happen and the providers will eventually have to listen

 

[batty]

If the work has not been done to current standards there may be a case to answer but if it has you could not be prosecuted for doing a proper job.

Batty

 

[Andy™]

Quite so GH..but TBH so what?

a great big complaints book won't do a fat lot.

Without access to a property and a witness to testify that the said works were carried out by the reported spark...

there is NO LEGAL CASE to answer.

If an electrician denies he ever went to a property, its just here-say and gossip, if there are no facts or witness to testify he did.

Part P scheme providers still have to work with English Law.

they can collate statistics about "alleged" breaches till the cows come home, (Apache will tell you what time that is) but they will be unable to enforce anything without facts and formal evidence...

If 20 people decided to make random spurious complaints about your work being non-compliant etc etc...

you could have them for deformation of character..

unless they have evidence to back up their case..

And a scheme provider, (any one of them), cannot take action on here-say evidence..

Or we can all sue them for deformation of character and detrimental effects on your business etc etc..

Facts & Evidence is need... not just complaints!

unfortunately because most people don't like complaining, evidence only comes to light with a tragedy such as the "Bath incident"

:|

but if there was many complaints about the same person, set him up, rogue traders style.

other than that, there isnt a great deal that can be done about it...

since 99% of people i work for dont know about part p or even that certs should be given, it would probably be fairly easy for me to forget to have next assessment, save myself