Moving Some Wall Light Fittings

[beadyui]

We've recently bought a new place, and there are 2 wall lights in symmetrical alcoves which we'd like to replace

However on closer inspection i was pleased to find that the 2 lights are offset by about 10cm vertically (not so symmetrical, argh!)

What i'd like to do is fit some new lights but at the same time level up the cabling on one side

The walls are plaster covered brick (external) and unfortunately it looks like on one side the cabling is plastered into the wall from the floor up, and on the other it is plastered into the wall from the ceiling down meaning that there is no extra cable to play with (apart from about 5cm of stripped back cable that is poking out of the wall which goes into the existing lights)

So i'm guessing this will require extending the cable on one side and cutting a new channel in the plaster work and then filling over.. 

However I know that you can't just "extend" cable that is covered by plaster, as you need to use a junction box/blanking plate.. but the problem with this is it will end up being right where I want to put the new light..

Any advice on how to go about this? I'm a keen but newbie DIY-er, but more than happy to get an expert in when its needed..

Thanks in advance!

 

[Blue Duck]

Where's Onoff thread?

I Will have a look but someone will probably find it first.

Basicly you can join cables with crimps, heat shrink and some tape there is a brilliant thread on here on how to do it.

Brb

Found it....

Crimps.....they divide opinion, they really do. Some favour a soldered joint instead. I have to confess to having a foot in both camps on it. Yes the regs on the face of it accept crimps. Yes, I'll occassionally use them and the circuit will test AOK but still in the back of my mind feel "uneasy". Maybe a bit irrational more probably thinking of some peoples strong opinions on the subject? I am though happier using the "sticky" ones as I think they offer a little bit of back up against mechanical seperation. I also think it guards against the moisture out of the render / plaster getting in. Get a decent ratchet crimper for a start and source crimps from a reputable source. And have a practice!

So......in the spirit of the theme (the other option was talking to the wife) I ventured out in the cold and got some bits..........and came back in:

I've taken a bit of brown/blue 2.5 T&E and an old bit of stranded red/black which is what you might find in reality.

My butt crimps are about 35mm long. So that they're neatly staggered and roughly equi-spaced I've stripped back 120mm of sheath of each piece of cable:



I've cut the cores on the centre line of each crimp:



Strip the ends, leave enough to get your stripper on:



First the blue/black joint. Slip over a bit of heat shrink (YES I'm using the old colours up):



Crimped:



Heat the crimp, I used a hot air gun as I'm pretty deft with it but I've a few little gas torches too. You MUST keep the heat away from the heatshrink for obvious reasons:



Slip the heatshrink over and do that. Be real careful not to play heat on the CPC sleeving as it's quick to "bubble". Now then the CPC's......two different sizes. Slip the short length of green heatshrink on. On the new T&E the CPC will go into a red but the stranded on the old red/black won't:



So blue crimp it is......but really that might be a tad big for the CPC on the new T&E...........so I double the end over - might need to give the crimp a gentle squeeze to get the doubled end in before you crimp (similar issues if you find old 2.5 with a 1mm CPC):



Heat the crimp, again keeping the heat away from the (green) heatshrink.

Then the brown/red joint.

Then 200mm of black heatshrink (sorry, not wasting grey though when I have used it I'll write "CRIMPED JOINT" on it with a Sharpie):



Of course it's dead easy doing it, in the warm, with no pressure and the missus doing dinner! Much harder when you have only 1" of cable to connect to hanging out of the wall and can't fit the crimping tool in there!

As for rating I've seen new cu's put in and the cables extended with crimps. They should be good up to the wire size they're for.

And yes I'd bung this in a chase and plaster over it! Of course then we worry about the effect of plasticisers on the heatshrink...........

EDIT: Nearly forgot! You might want to do your dead tests at least BEFORE you plaster it! :lol:

 

[pewter]

chose your light fitting before moving the cable.

Some light fittings are not suitable to have the cable entry dead center, the cable entry might be offset.

 

[ProDave]

Or since in this case the offset is up / down, choose light fittings that have enough height to "absorb" the heigh difference, i.e the cable will enter one right at the top, and the other, right at the bottom.

 

[Blue Duck]

Finding more with pll's and ballasts so more than certainly side entry

 

[beadyui]

So plastering over crimped and shrink wrapped joined cable doesn't contravene regulations?

And yes i'll definitely pick out some lights before working out what needs to move where..

Thanks for your help!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I have often drilled out the backplate to  suit uneven cable entry,  but remember once done may invalidate any warranty.

 

[OnOff]

I recognise those photos!

Perfectly acceptable as a connection that won't be able to be inspected. In the regs it would be covered under the section that states "a joint made by welding, soldering brazing or appropriate compression tool". Of course, do a BADLY made crimp that's loose or roughly soldered joint that pokes a sharp bit through the heat shrink and you might as well not bother! I'm a fan of the heat shrinkable butt crimps specifically as they "melt" inside & stick to the cables so I figure extra protection against damp ingress. "Tingles" off of damp plastered walls anyone?

I suppose, splitting hairs one could argue that the PVC cable sheath is no longer intact and that the heat shrink doesn't afford the same protection..............bowlocks tbh, put two layers on if worried! A misplaced drill, picture hook or drawing pin will go thru either a treat!  :lol:

What is the cable you need to extend, 1mm or 1.5mm T&E?  Red crimps should do you. PM me an email and I'll send you a little kit with some heatshrink if you want. BUT, don't attempt with a dodgy DIY crimp tool PLEASE!!! For the odd DIY/car use you need something at least like this:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DVDHCR15.html

Maplin do one similar for a similar price. As opposed to one of these:

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/garage-equipment/hand-tools/halfords-crimping-pliers

(Although I'll confess to still carrying one to chop M3.5's down!)

You really should be then testing it with the appropriate kit though!

 

[Blue Duck]

+1 I have dodgy crimping pliers in the front of the van for fixing the van, great for pulling out blade fuses and stripping cable but NOT so good for crimping & wouldn't dream of using it on 230v stuff.