Need some help with an EICR!

[plastics77]

Hi there, wondering if anyone can help.

I bought an Edwardian flat about 6 years ago, and at the time, the EICR stated urgent work needed in relation to 'no main bonding found on gas and water' and 'not all circuits RCD protected' - I asked them to do the works to get it safe and they installed a 17th edition fuseboard and main bonding on gas (still don't really understand what that technical term means!) and then passed it with a satisfactory EICR.

A year later, we did some kitchen and bathroom works, and the contractor did advise us  and charged us (after the event) for 'full re-wiring of the kitchen', but I don't recall being given any kind of electrical safety certificate.

Fast forward and I have come to renew the EICR and got another one done, as we are going to be having tenants now and was surprised to see a whole host of issues listed as C2:

- main earth to fuseboard undersized

- no gas and water bond (still no idea what this means, I thought this was corrected before)

- gas installation and water installation pipes (not sure what this means in relation to electrics)

- kitchen lights not earthed

- high R1+R2 on kitchen sockets - readings not complying to regulation

- broken pattress in bedroom (don't know what a pattress is!)

- bathroom downlights wired in a 2 core flex and not earthed

My query really is - some of these related to kitchen and bathroom seems to suggest a faulty installation and therefore I may need to go back to the contractor who did the re-wiring - but could some of these simply occur from 'wear and tear' over time??

Similarly, things like gas and water bond, installation pipes, and main earth to fuseboard undersized - is this an issue that should have been rectified originally with the works carried out after the first EICR or again, can these issues simply re-occur with wear and tear over time?

Many thanks for any advice, as I am particularly confused with the technical language used for this...

 

[ProDave]

I think you can summarise that as the previous electrician is a crook or incompetent.

Earth bonding is a big green and yellow wire from the main earth at the fuse box to the earth and gas pipes.  It stops any voltage difference between them.  It was not fitted on older houses but is required now.  If you have paid someone to fit them previously, and they are not there, I would say some criminal activity has occurred.

Ditto the kitchen rewire. the faults may be simple like a loose connection or they may be more serious.  Again you paid to have that rewired and you should have been provided with an EIC, Electrical Instalation Certificate.

Broken Pattress is just a socket or switch front that is broken and may expose live terminals, simple replacement.

Your first redress should be to give the original electrician the chance to rectify his mistakes / omissions at his cost.

 

[plastics77]

Thanks Pro Dave - the original electrical work was 6 years ago - same company did the EICR, then did the electrical work ('gas bond' and fuseboard) and then re-did the EICR. 

Looking carefully at the original EICR - it listed 'no bonding on gas' and 'no bonding on water' separately; but the re-issued EICR simply stated 'new consumer unit fitted, and bonded gas' - but silent on water. How could it be a satisfactory EICR unless water was also 'bonded'?

Also with the recent EICR - what does the listing 'gas installation pipe' and 'water installation pipe' listed separately as a C2 issue, in addition to 'no gas and water bond'?

Certainly the kitchen re-wiring issue I can take up, but the refurb company probably sub-contracted and will deny responsibility and I will have a tough time enforcing anything, as that was 5 years ago.

In addition, for the actual registered electrician who did the initial work - can any omissions from 6 years ago still be dealt with, or will they say it is too long ago now?

 

[Murdoch]

Are you sure you got an EICR for the fuseboard change? 
 

An EIC is the certificate you should receive for a new fuseboard , and Part P if in England or Wales

 

[plastics77]

Sorry,  not an EICR, it was an EIC for the work below..

Supply & fit new 17th edition consumer unit with twin RCD protection.
Bonded gas.

 

[Murdoch]

Is your incoming water supply in a plastic pipe?

 

[plastics77]

To be honest, no idea whether incoming water supply is in a plastic pipe - not even sure where it is coming in - its an upper floor maisonette...

 

[kerching]

I have always referred to the surface plastic box that the switch or socket is mounted onto as "a patress"

 

[ProDave]

To be honest, no idea whether incoming water supply is in a plastic pipe - not even sure where it is coming in - its an upper floor maisonette...

That is the sort of thing you really should be familliar with in your own house. One day you might get a burst pipe and you then really really really need to know where to turn the water off.

It is probably, but not always, in the kitchen cupboard under the sink..

 

[plastics77]

Sorry yes my bad, I remember the kitchen fitter saying it's coming in within the cupboard next to the fridge! Its been tented for several years now, cant remember if plastic or not...

 

[Murdoch]

Back to the OP - maybe you should locate a new local spark and get him to make an assessment

Unfortunately on my patch some of the lettings agents have got "pet" sparks and the agents get a cut of the work value - I won't work for lettings agents - they are hopeless.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hello Plastics77.....

Not sure how much you understand about the concept and purpose of an EICR, and its accuracy...  

But I have listed a few key points that may help you decide what action you may want to take next...

1/ An EICR, (Electrical Installation Condition Report) is the document that is issued following a periodic inspection of an electrical installation.

2/ A periodic inspection is a bit like an MOT for your wiring.. BUT whereas an MOT has strict fixed standards that must be adhered to, a periodic inspection is an individuals personal judgment about the condition of an electrical installation.

So two electricians could reach different opinions on the condition of an installation due to their experience, (or lack of experience), about undertaking inspection & testing.  (From several posts on the forum, there appears to be an alarming number who really should not be doing EICR's). 

3/ Electrical installations should be installed to comply with current wiring regulations, BS7671

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Requirements-Electrical-Installations-Regulations-Eighteenth/dp/1785611704/ref=sr_1_1?

Current wiring regulations are referred to as the 18th edition, Published 1 July 2018, Effective from 1 Jan 2019. 

4/ There is a guidance book for inspection and testing and chapter 3 specifically relates to Periodic inspections. Where it states the purpose is to verify if an installation is electrically safe for continued use.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Guidance-Note-Inspection-Electrical-Regulations/dp/1785614525/ref=sr_1_1?

5/ An installation installed to earlier standards of BS7671 does not automatically become unsafe if the wiring regulations are updated....   HOWEVER...  some "electricians" (AKA cowboys/Idjuts/5-Week-Wonders),  think that all work done to prior editions of BS7671 is dangerous because the regulations have been updated!

6/ An EICR is a relatively technical document that most average customers, (and many electricians), do not fully understand..... {.e.g. your confusions are a classic example}. So where additional notes or comments are needed to provide clarification of any observed anomalies, then continuation sheets, or covering letters, can be attached to the EICR, (there are spaces on an EICR available to note the quantity of additional pages attached)

7/ Whenever I am undertaking a periodic inspection , If I note any significant areas of non-compliance that present a danger to the user, I will normally take a photo to confirm what I have found.  And make a note of the specific wiring regulation that has been contravened, and provide copies for the client. 

8/ With 99.99999% of my invoices, electrical certificates/reports, there will be a covering letter to the customer, stating that if there are any areas requiring clarification, to please contact me for further information...

So  from the timescales you quote, there has been an update to BS7671 in between the two EICR's you mention..

But if it was all satisfactory and compliant with the earlier issue of BS7671 it is unlikely that deterioration due to normal use would cause any significant issues.... 

Have you  tried asking the contractor who provided the EICR to clarify the areas you are unclear about??

Guinness    

 

[Ghostyyyy]

I completely renovated my flat in 2016, electrics were re-done and an EICR was issued.

An EICR inspection recently has identified 2x C2  issues:

1. N9 Mains Gas Bonding

2. Plastic consumer unit has holder exceeding 2mm

I've been quoted £972 for the rectification work.

I'm surprised at the above given the 2016 work and EICR, can anyone advise if these seems reasonable? Best course of action?

thanks in advance.

 

[Sharpend]

When you had the original works done was it an EiC or EICR that was issued?

 

[Ghostyyyy]

they look very similar but the original one says

Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate (for a single dwelling)

 

[binky]

So where is the gas bond connected?

Holder? Needs clarification.

 

[kerching]

So where is the gas bond connected?

Holder? Needs clarification.

I reckon HOLDER is HOLES, for I too sulphur From phattt  finga  sindrum 

 

[binky]

I reckon HOLDER is HOLES, for I too sulphur From phattt  finga  sindrum 

my fingers are disleckick too.. 

 

[kerching]

my fingers are disleckick too.. 

Did you hear about the Dyslexic Pimp that bought a Warehouse?