Newbie diyer

[Daniboy0812]

Hi everyone. 

My my first post on here so be gentle. Have an issue with a land ing light. I'm trying to turn the landing light on/off from both hall and landing switches.

here goes:

landing switch : 1 cable coming into top of back box which I imagine is from ceiling rose and 1.5mm twin+e coming up through bottom of back box and by looking at the hall switch is the feed down to that. 

Ive been told it looks like the light is fed from the single strand cable from ceiling rose.

Is this one one way switching on 2? 

Confused as to how to wire it back up so if anyone has any suggestions of how to wire it up correctly so I can switch from both switches on/off

Thanks 

 

[bluetobits]

The cable going down to the hall switch should be 3core and e. You need to connect com to com, L1 to L1 and L2 to L2 to link upstairs and downstairs switches,  then put live into L1 and switch wire into L2 on upstairs switch.

 

[NozSpark]

1. (and this is really important) I do hope that you only have 1 lighting circuit as it sounds like your landing light is getting it's live feed from the downstairs circuit  ---- this is called a borrowed neutral and is dangerous

2. If your light switch has a COM, L1 & L2 then the single wire goes into the COM terminal and the twin goes into the L1 and L2,, if you get the wrong war around then the switch will be "upside down"

HTH... and make sure that you do this with the circuit isolated!!!

 

[Daniboy0812]

Thanks for the reply. 

The house is old and has just been 'renovated' not by doing a rewire so client doesn't want new wires in so have to work with what I have. 

All i I have is one strand of cable coming from ceiling rose (could be perm live) and twin+e going down to hall switch. 

Any my ideas how I work with that? 

 

[NozSpark]

Yes.... the way that I said in my post.... it's just done a different way (which could be dangerous)

I suggest that you/they get an electrician in to at least find out what the condition of the electrical installation is

 

[Daniboy0812]

I know exactly how to do 2 way lighting but this was something I'd not seen before. Previous owner was 'old timer' sparkie dodging the devil by the sounds of it.

I'll carry on doing my 'safe' electrics the way I know how. 

Very quick responses so will be back if I need more help. 

Thanks NozSpark

 

[steptoe]

Ok, you do not have devil work,

This was a normal method or doing 2way lighting up until prob the mid 90s in smallish domestic,

Still a very common method on commercial/industrial.

You have a live at the downstairs 2gang looped across to the landing switch at downstairs position, then a twin coming upstairs, (strappers), then a single switched live going to the light,

As Noz says, you need to make sure you have only ONE lighting circuit for this system to be safe.

You single goes to the com (or L1) terminal, your twin goes to the other pair of terminals, either L1&L2 or L2&L3

HTH

 

[Manator]

Daniboy, you started your post/question as a newbie diyer? then you go on to say you know how to do two way switching? It is evident that you do not. In the old days it was very common to wire in singles, a live and earth taken to a switch and the one wire taken to the light, to provide the switching from perm live. Faced with your problem it looks like you have assumed more than anything else. We all know the old adage what assume does!

Personally not knowing how it was wired in the first place I would have done some testing, continuity would prove where they come from and go to.

Once you know what does what, it is a simple task of putting it all back together.

I do hope you continue to do your safe electrics.

 

[Daniboy0812]

If some could explain a 'borrowed neutral' or live, that would be great

 

[kerching]

If some could explain a 'borrowed neutral' or live, that would be great

Assuming you have TWO lighting cicuits then it sounds like the upstairs light has its feed from downstairs circuit and its neutral from the upstairs cicuit...thus it is 'borrowed'

as in this reply to you previously...

quote...1. (and this is really important) I do hope that you only have 1 lighting circuit as it sounds like your landing light is getting it's live feed from the downstairs circuit  ---- this is called a borrowed neutral and is dangerous...unquote

this is neither GOOD nor SAFE

 

[Daniboy0812]

Ok. So would I be right in saying... Trace back to where it's been 'borrowed' - remove it and run a neutral from a downstairs light (hallway)

Has anyone got a 'best practise' method they use? 

 

[NozSpark]

The best practice is to replace the strapper with a 3c&e and then run a t&e from the upstairs switch to the light

Or the cheapest method is to combine both circuits onto the same protective device

 

[Essex1]

This is where it is difficult to give sound advice. The op is not quite clear. The members are not quite clear. It is like the deaf leading the blind which could have terrible consequences. 

My advice in this situation woukd be to seek the advice of a local electrician who can tell you exactly what is required. 

Far too much guess work. 

 

[steptoe]

I think the reason it is difficult to give good advice us that the OP DIYer thinks he knows a lot more than he actually does,

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Scenario

This wiring is very VERY common, yet the OP classed it as dodging the devil standard of work, it was a standard,  acceptable, and normal wiring method under 15th,

If, the OP can accept their knowledge limitations then it could be seen as being able to accept the advice on the best way forward,

But, much more detail is required,

It is in the DIY section after all.