notifiable or not?

[gselectrical]

Hi Guys. Im currently enrolled with the NIC under the Domestic Installer Scheme. I got called today to price a job on a caravan park. Basically the work consists of wiring an old barn which has been converted to a couple of rooms for guests to stay. On completion I would issue an EIC, However do I have to notify this work to the NIC who would then notify LABC?? Thanks.

 

[green-hornet]

This work would not be notifiable under part p, because the building is not classed as a domestic home.

It is a business, so would be commercial and not under the part p scheme.

However this would not exempt you from doing the work to all building regulations, remember there are more regs to follow than the usual part p.

 

[gselectrical]

Appreciate your reply. Thaught this would be the case (as in non part P) When you say more regulations which ones do you mean?. Thanks again

 

[green-hornet]

Part A - Structure

Part B - Fire safety

Part C - Site preparation and resistance to moisture

Part D - Toxic substances

Part E - Resistance to the passage of sound

Part F - Ventilation

Part G - Hygiene

Part H - Drainage and waste disposal

Part J - Combustion appliances and fuel storage systems

Part K - Protection from falling, collision and impact

Part L - Conservation of fuel and power

Part M - Access to and use of buildings

Part N - Glazing - safety in relation to impact, opening and cleaning

Part P - Electrical safety

That is the full list.

The electrician will have to comply with

A, B, C, E, F, K, L, and M of course part P for domestic.

For the various parts a quick eample is below forgive any spelling.

Part A, chases in walls, or holes made through joists etc

Part B, maintainance of fire walls ceilings by fitting correct fire rated equipment and sealing any holes.

Part C, any holes drilled through external walls etc

Part E, Not common in domestic, but partition walls where socket outlets and switches are fitted you have to maintain the correct accoustic values.

Part F,Ventilation you must provide a power source capable of powering a ventilation system , and controls to operate that system efficiently.

Part K, basically clip things in place and do not fit anything that is likely to fall if knocked or vibrated out of balance.

Part L, Use of energy efficient lighting and controls.

There will be other regulations like fire and lighting but that should give you an Idea of how other regulations effect the electrician.

 

[gselectrical]

Thanks again, I think Part E will be something to think about as switches/sockets are back to back with another room, some sort of accoustic/fire proof barrier will have to be constructed. Cheers. J

 

[Evans Electric]

OMG comply with that lot and you'll never earn a dime. !!

 

[green-hornet]

OMG comply with that lot and you'll never earn a dime. !!

Surprisingly you almost always do comply but never know you are doing so.

Thats why we are registered and not fly by night cowboys.

Most of the bulding regulations will be covered by the wiring regulations, and work almost hand in hand with compliance.

Experiance in installing, and knowing what to do and how to do it, inveriably means you comply with the regulations.

On larger contracts things like Part C, E, F, k, L, and M are in the plans, and worked out by an electrical engineer who is responsible for the design of the installation, this is when the 3 signature EIC's are used.

Other guidelines are given for accoustic levels rist assement for fire evacuation and emergency lighting, all nicely placed on the plans so you do not have to worry about the design.

 

[PC Electrics]

Having just re-read 'limits on application' on page 5 of the approved document I notice that it uses the word 'dwelling'.

Given that notification takes 5 mins and costs

 

[kme]

I would notify this work. GH may well be correct, however you do not KNOW what the property`s purpose may be in the future.

There is no penalty for notifying un-notifiable work. The same cannot be said of the inverse.

KME

 

[Andy™]

Having just re-read 'limits on application' on page 5 of the approved document I notice that it uses the word 'dwelling'.Given that notification takes 5 mins and costs

 

[kme]

Then you`d either class it as commercial, and not notify, or you`d consider it domestic, and notify.

Further, GH made the point that it was a business, thereby commercial. Does that therefore mean that a property rented out is a business; and classifiable as commercial?

Didn`t think so.

KME

 

[gselectrical]

Good point KME. J

 

[green-hornet]

Then you`d either class it as commercial, and not notify, or you`d consider it domestic, and notify.Further, GH made the point that it was a business, thereby commercial. Does that therefore mean that a property rented out is a business; and classifiable as commercial?

Didn`t think so.

KME

No, a home is very different than a barn conversion for overnight guests.

All landlords have to make sure that the homes they let are in a safe condition, and all will fall into the catagory of domestic properties.

The barn conversion would not, it is not let out, it is an extention of guest accomodation.

There would be no need under part p to notify this work, just has there would be no need to notify a 250 room hotel. Yet they still must comply with the regulations.

You have to remember that part p is a building regulation, made in haste, and was a direct attempt by the government to stop cowboy installations in the home. It failed.

I remember a few years ago before part p I had to supply an insurance company with my certificates before they would allow my certificates to be accepted. The nasty implications they gave in the initial letter to me, made me more angry, and I just wiped the floor with their appointed electrician, who left with far more knowledge than he arrived. ROTFWL

The reason for this was because I was not registered with the eca or niceic at the time.

Just a little footnote

the clasification of use as laid down by the planning department for the borough would tell you if it is domestic or commercial.

If planning permission is granted for domestic property, then its part p, if not, its not.

 

[kme]

Well put GH. Valid post; although I hold to the original reply of "if in doubt, notify".

KME

 

[green-hornet]

Well put GH. Valid post; although I hold to the original reply of "if in doubt, notify".KME

I totally agree, by doing so you at least cover your bases.

We all know there is nothing wrong with that :^O

Same thing this week, I notified an outside light, by strict ruling of the regulations there was no need to, but I did it anyway, cost me a couple of quid,so not a big problem really.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Can I just add at this point...

Building regulations 2000

(ISBN 13 978-0-11-703653-6)

Approved document 'P', is...

Electrical Safety - "Dwellings"

Thats, Dwellings... NOT domestic OR commercial...

BUT.. DWELLINGS!

I am not aware of any discrimination of length of tenancy or rental term....

Just the fact the persons Dwell (live/eat/sleep/wash etc) in the property for an undisclosed period of time.?

well thats what mine says anyway? :|

Discuss? ?:|

 

[green-hornet]

However a clear indication of what is and what is not a dwelling, will have to be established.

Besides the planning authority definition, one very important definition can be found at the HM customs and Excise, who will use the definitions when calculating any taxes and in which group those taxes are calculated from.

This is an excerpt from their definition and exceptions.

A dwelling house is a building, or part of a building, which is a person's home. A person's second or holiday home is a dwelling house as is a flat that is used as a residence. A block of flats is not a dwelling house although the individual flats within the block may be. University halls of residence, accommodation used for holiday letting, a hospital, a nursing home or a prison are not dwelling houses.

So its not the amount of time a person dwells there that is the issue just the classification.