Our old favourite....Bonding.....

[shed69]

132.16 Additions and alterations to an installation

No addition or alteration, temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation, unless it has been ascertained that the rating and the condition of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adequate for the altered circumstances. Furthermore, the earthing and bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate.

I remind you.....

Which is why a majority of the time people who want something as simple as an extra socket, a

 

[streetlighter]

I've been out to quote a job where existing bonding was 2.5 mm and told the client it would require upgrading to 10mm. Just got the reply the other electrician never mentioned it and he will do just what I want, needless to say we didn't get that job.

When I did the 2391 a few years back we where told that 6 mm is fine if you can prove it with calculation as shown in the regs.

 

[Manator]

The main problem we have is costs and potential loss of work to those who do not care if its right or wrong. The client will be on a tight budget and will especially now go for the lowest of quotes, which as we all know will not be right.

I personally would do the work providing I am satisfied that the safety of the installation is not compromised, and is left in a state no less dangerous than before any alteration. Any and all deviations are always noted on my certificates and I do not think I ever do any alteration without including at least one continuation page.

A very recent job that I am in the process of writing up the certificate has two pages, the building was rewired 3 years ago and I have installed a new 4mm radial circuit. The sockets are all on one ring main, and there are two mains water supplies to the building, only one of them has a 10mm bond, with some equipotential bonding in places, the pipe work in the room I have been working in has a reading of 0.27 so obviously needs bonding, also whilst the gas meter has been removed the steel gas pipe is still in place with no bonding and goes right down the building to earth.

When I mentioned all this to the client, he said that he would get his electrician to carry out these works, the whole conversation is written in my certificate, and the deviations noted. Job done, and responsibility and liability removed from me to the client and his electrician.

 

[shed69]

Manator, so your pretty much saying you'd do a job with NO bonding in place then! You might as well....And just put it on your deviations....

Wait for it.....

Regs are just a guide.....

There it is before the rest say it !!!!!

 

[Manator]

Manator, so your pretty much saying you'd do a job with NO bonding in place then! You might as well....And just put it on your deviations....Wait for it.....

Regs are just a guide.....

There it is before the rest say it !!!!!

If I am only doing an alteration or a minor works then I would assess each job as presented, if its a rewire or more than just a single additional circuit I would have to insist that the bonding is upgraded if required, however the work that I am involved with, to some extent can not be carried out by the average electrician and as such my prices are on the high side, so if the client wishes to get their own spark in to carry out any additional bonding I can only go along with the clients wishes.

What I am saying though is make sure your certificates are as full of information as possible leaving nothing for the client or a following electrician in no doubt that the work was carried out to a safe standard.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Whats different from how a professional spark has been, (should have been?), working for years anyway?????

looking at it this way.....

What have electricians been doing for the past 11 years since this guidance was added to the regs???

Red book it used to be called 131.8

Brown book it was called 130-07-01

But the wording was near as dammit the same!

or even...

In the yellow book when it was called 130-09-01 where it only refers to the earthing no specific mention of the bonding...

But the principal is still in essence similar...

That is

You should have ALWAYS been checking the supply rating condition and protectives measures etc.. etc.....

before doing additions alterations to an installtion..

So why haven't sparks been including this anyway on their job quotes.....

or have they all been working like cowboys on the cheap....

and some claim they are undervalued!!!!!!! :C

 

[Manator]

Any works I carry out always includes bonding upgrades if required, however sometimes as in my post above they opt to get their own electrician to carry out this work so reducing our cost to them. This does not happen often, but is possible. On a recent job for the NHS I did 3 health centres and each had to have upgrades to bonding, they had their own electricians do this work whilst I installed the rest of the circuits, and I just added bonding that was included for the plant and equipment in the areas where I was working.

I think my case is exceptional and not the rule. If I was doing domestic works that would be a very different story.

 

[shed69]

That is

You should have ALWAYS been checking the supply rating condition and protectives measures etc.. etc.....

before doing additions alterations to an installtion..

So why haven't sparks been including this anyway on their job quotes.....

or have they all been working like cowboys on the cheap....

and some claim they are undervalued!!!!!!! :C

Or undereducated.......

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was made at 13:21 ----------

Any works I carry out always includes bonding upgrades if required, however sometimes as in my post above they opt to get their own electrician to carry out this work so reducing our cost to them. This does not happen often, but is possible. On a recent job for the NHS I did 3 health centres and each had to have upgrades to bonding, they had their own electricians do this work whilst I installed the rest of the circuits, and I just added bonding that was included for the plant and equipment in the areas where I was working.I think my case is exceptional and not the rule. If I was doing domestic works that would be a very different story.

I get what your saying in that situation but your kinda backtracking cos anyone of us would do the same if the sites own sparks were to be carrying out bonding as we were doing what we were there for....

 

[Manator]

I am back tracking a little, because from my post above it would appear that I do what I want rather than what I should, which is not the case, or the impression I want to give. The work I do is normally done where they have a full works department so the problem with bonding in my case is not really a problem apart from my first example where the client is getting his own spark in to upgrade the bonding that should have been installed when it was rewired 3 years ago.

 

[shed69]

I'll let you off manator!! Many may not.......!