PIR, why are they not a legal requirement?

[meady]

Just had a periodic inspection canceled on me due to the letting agent telling the landlord he doesent need one because it could delay the tenant moving in. I pointed out the fact that the landlord will be held accountable if there was a fault but the reply I got was it's not law to have it checked unlike gas. I don't know the stats but surly there are more accidents and deaths due to shocks than gas. Rant over lol

 

[Doc Hudson]

Only in a worst case do electrical faults result a fatal injury and generally these have no impact on neighboring properties. Whereas a gas explosion can take out multiple properties killing several people with one incident. It believe it was a gas explosion at a block of flats in the 70's that was a pivotal point to a change in the law regarding Gas. The electrical industry has no big equivalent disaster to justify expensive changes to the law. Times are hard, money is tight, some people will only do the bare minimum they legally have to.

Doc H.

 

[a1]

some people will only do the bare minimum they legally have to.Doc H.

And some won't even do that. :_|

 

[AAAMUSEMENTS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point

This makes interesting reading too:

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/real-danger-of-new-ronan-point-collapse/3035038.article

 

[Cirrus]

In my opinion it should become statute that upon sale of a property a full PIR is conducted. Also, if letting a property then a PIR shall be conducted prior to tenant moving in and every year thereafter - or whenever there is a change of tenant.

I also strongly believe that companies should be forced into annual PIR's to satisfy insurance requirements.

 

[james2391L3]

PIR are essental.Records of all checks inspections and tests should be kept throughout the working life of the electrical installation Reg 622.BS7671,The landlord and tennant Act 1985 sect11 REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS in short leases sub section 1b requires the land lord to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling house for supply of gas and ELECTRICITY.England and Wales .Scotland ACT2000 sect13.

 

[james2391L3]

:Spam2Any time the tennant is changed a PIR must be carried out,as past tennants could have messed around with the electrics,Domestic properties must have PIR when their is a change of occupancy Electricity Safety Qaulity and Continuity Rgs 2002 are under the umberela of The Health and Safety at Work Act also the Regs are under this umbrela.

 

[james2391L3]

:good luck:equal to/less thanNever heard of a plumber drowning,apart from in the padling pool.

 

[james2391L3]

bad day explodeThe PIR under Regs non stat doc can however be used in a court of law to prove complience with statutory requirementssuch as the EAWR 1989 which cover all work activity associated with electrical systems in domestic situations.

 

[Andy™]

PIR's should be mandatory. remember my thread the other day about spurs wired in flex? rental property. but either way, they had recently moved in, and knew nothing about the flex until it failed. PIR would have highlighted it

 

[PC Electrics]

Only in a worst case do electrical faults result a fatal injury and generally these have no impact on neighboring properties. Whereas a gas explosion can take out multiple properties killing several people with one incident. It believe it was a gas explosion at a block of flats in the 70's that was a pivotal point to a change in the law regarding Gas. The electrical industry has no big equivalent disaster to justify expensive changes to the law. Times are hard, money is tight, some people will only do the bare minimum they legally have to.Doc H.

Trouble is, that even if the landlord has a dangerous installation and someone dies, there is no penalty for said landlord.

Take the case of the mother electrocuted by the bath taps a couple of years ago. The owner had the house rewired after at a cost of about

 

[Theorysparky]

Landlord near me went down for a 7 stretch

manslaughter for smoke alarms not work properly after he had been advised.

Got a PIR on tuesday in a rented place

wheres the fuseboard ????? old wylex flush to the wall !!!!!

got to chip out the plaster to get to the screws !!!

another cu change the other day old wylex,,,,,,no cover

only had a bit of cardboard balancing on it !!! been like it for years

 

[Theorysparky]

PIR when selling the property

who pays for it ?????

buyer or seller ???

case the other day the seller was told to get a PIR as the surveyor had picked to electrical items needed further investigation

personally i would have told him to swivel.....

 

[Apache]

PIR when selling the propertywho pays for it ?????

buyer or seller ???

Buyer beware. If they are worried then they pay for the report.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

PIR are essental.Records of all checks inspections and tests should be kept throughout the working life of the electrical installation Reg 622.BS7671,The landlord and tennant Act 1985 sect11 REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS in short leases sub section 1b requires the land lord to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling house for supply of gas and ELECTRICITY.England and Wales .Scotland ACT2000 sect13.

But no obligation for a PIR!

Any time the tennant is changed a PIR must be carried out,as past tennants could have messed around with the electrics,Domestic properties must have PIR when their is a change of occupancy Electricity Safety Qaulity and Continuity Rgs 2002 are under the umberela of The Health and Safety at Work Act also the Regs are under this umbrela.

unfortunatly not "must"!

The PIR under Regs non stat doc can however be used in a court of law to prove complience with statutory requirementssuch as the EAWR 1989 which cover all work activity associated with electrical systems in domestic situations.

A tenant is NOT an employee of the landlord. EAWR not applicable!

Interesting bunch of legal looking quotes......

BUT unfortunately NONE enforce ANY legal obligations for a domestic dwelling or rented properties to be inspected...

The EAWR & H&SAW only apply during any short duration whilst a paid contractor is undertaking some work at a property. but once the contractor leaves the property the duty of care reverts back to the homeowner or landlord and it is NO LONGER a place of work!!!

The landlord and tennant act provides NO legal obligation to have any electrical inspection done. Only to keep the electrical installation in good repair..

Which are two very subtly different issues!

Consider a landlord who has got EIC and/or MWC for any additions or alterations undertaken, and he himself chooses to do a visual check around the property and gets a contractor in to do remedial work promptly with any breakages.. Then he could argue he is trying to take reasonable steps to keep the electrical installation in good repair without ANY formal PIR's been done.! :|

BS7671 is just guidance for good practice and Table 3.2, Page 63 of guidance note 3 is only "Recommended frequency of inspections" NOT Statutory inspection intervals...

We all know it makes good sense to have PIR done regularly or change of tennancy......

and guides such as the ECA landlords guide recommends it as well....

http://esc.org.uk/business-and-community/guidance-for/landlords.html

BUT...

It is no more statutorily enforceable than it is for me to legally have to follow the manufactures recommended service intervals for my car!

It is very good practice to follow the service intervals... But I don't have to if I so wish!!!

A PIR would need to become an independent, legal obligation like an MOT..

but then we would all be moaning more because there would no doubt be a greater level of scrutiny verifying the inspectors competence as well!!

even more than the basic stuff to do PIR's under the banner of an approved contractor body!

Gas explosions have already been mentioned...

But there is also the Carbon Monoxide fumes silent killer as well,

which is why Gas heaters/boilers legally need to be checked in rented properties!!

Bottom line is:- More fatalities with Gas than Lecktwick...

At the last NIC seminar this topic was discussed and the general consensus was..

We need to kill more people with electrical faults before anything will really start moving!

:_| :_| :_| :_|headbangheadbang

It would be great if legal obligations for PIR's was brought in....

But I am not holding my breath expecting anything to change in the near future!

:| :C

 

[Apache]

Bottom line is:- More fatalities with Gas than Lecktwick...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11263439

 

[Sidewinder]

I have it on good authority that the main chance we have is with the insurance company policy requirements.

MOST are now "sneaking" in PIR clauses undertaken by competent persons.

This is due to their substantial financial losses in the last few years and them wanting to claw that back by not paying out on claims if they can by requiring valid PIR

 

[kme]

Works for me!

I had heard that the "new" landlord`s regs would be making it mandatory for them to have regular PIR`s

Just finished work in a block of 4 flats (2 ground floor empty, 1 first floor empty). The ground floor with an empty above was the first to be "done" (minimal necessary!) - INS showed problems - went to flat above, lifted boards - rat damage to cables!

Same in the upstairs property (loft above) - but the other ground floor has an occupant in - so I can`t access the lighting cabling etc (plus supply tails are in there, and I can SEE the gnaw marks where the cables come out of the ceiling.)

It passed PIR on insulation (borderline), so all I can do is limit the periodicity of the PIR to 12 months, and suggest strongly that they relocate the tenant ASAP whilst we deal with the problem - tight sod won`t - I`ve sent reminders for 12 years about "periodic due on such-and-such flat" - no dice. They`ve moved new tenants into all 4 flats today (BTW, the painters were in there BEFORE anyone thought to let me know it was being done........Grrrrrrrrrrrrr)

There is only so much you can do; and you have to accept that, or it`ll drive you loopy.

KME

 

[Sidewinder]

KME,

REALLY my last post 2 nite.

I'll send you an insurance policy wording you can use as leverage?

The wording on the policy is very similar to that which got me "that job"

Just suggest the landlord checks their policy...

Paul

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

There is only so much you can do; and you have to accept that, or it`ll drive you loopy.KME

FFS boy!!!!!!!!!!!!

you been loopy for donkeys years......

well thats what Mrs KME told Admin2 to tell Patch to e-mail over to Deke...

who wasn't supposed to tell anyone else...

but with his computer skills he did a broadcast e-mail to the whole of his address book!!!! headbang

:slap :slap:slap