R1+R2 on minor works

[paul b b]

Hello gents,

I have to replace a few light fittings in someones lounge.

i have to fill in the cert and need to get the R1+R2, but the kitchen has loads of spots all about 4meters up!

can i do the R1+R2 from the light fitting i am replacing and note it on the cert?

and on another job i have to replace a light fitting and do some making good but there is no RCD, is there a way around this with the regs? the lights will again be in the lounge not in a kitchen. or do i have to price for a RCD ( though i know she wont pay)

many thanks

paul

 

[meady]

Hello gents,I have to replace a few light fittings in someones lounge.

i have to fill in the cert and need to get the R1+R2, but the kitchen has loads of spots all about 4meters up!

can i do the R1+R2 from the light fitting i am replacing and note it on the cert?

and on another job i have to replace a light fitting and do some making good but there is no RCD, is there a way around this with the regs? the lights will again be in the lounge not in a kitchen. or do i have to price for a RCD ( though i know she wont pay

many thanks

paul

alright fella how's things? The r1+r2 should be taken from the end of the circuit so if the kitchen is at the end it should be taken from there to get a true Reading. I'm not sure on this but couldent you take it from the switch in the kitchen if you can't access the light fittings??.With the other job you mentioned I'm pretty sure that if you replace like for like you don't need to add a rcd to the circuit but if you extend it or add you have to cover your work with the protection.

 

[paul b b]

thanks meady!

hows things your end?

 

[meady]

Going well, being kept busy doing pir remedials on lots of shops and flats. Boring work but it pays the bills. How's things your end? Getting more work through?

 

[paul b b]

a bit, all of the places i want to put ads are yearly deals so i have to hang on for a month or two, but getting a few word of mouth referalls.local rag is useless around here, 1 charge 100 quid for 6 weeks, quite cheep but 1 call from 12 weeks another paper charge 60 for a week! a bit expensive if it dont work

 

[dave2]

R1+R2 not a requirement on a minor works.

See page 150 OSG.

I know that they are part of some scam providers certificates.

Dave2

 

[paul b b]

ahhh thanks dave, will save a lot of time and messing about

 

[professional]

alright fella how's things? The r1+r2 should be taken from the end of the circuit so if the kitchen is at the end it should be taken from there to get a true Reading. I'm not sure on this but couldent you take it from the switch in the kitchen if you can't access the light fittings??.With the other job you mentioned I'm pretty sure that if you replace like for like you don't need to add a rcd to the circuit but if you extend it or add you have to cover your work with the protection.

No you do not!

The only time that rcd protection is required is if cables are installed in the wall at a depth of <50mm. The fact that it is the kitchen is totally irrelevant in this respect. Adding or altering circuits does not automatically require the work to be protected by an rcd!

 

[kme]

Buuuuut,

If you alter a cct which, due to the 17th, would require an RCD, you should be installing one (or an RCBo).

If you don`t you MUST put it on the cert. as a deviation.

KME

 

[revjames]

My boss is NIC reg'd and the forms we use for MW do ask for r1+r2

 

[nicks electrix]

Buuuuut,If you alter a cct which, due to the 17th, would require an RCD, you should be installing one (or an RCBo).

If you don`t you MUST put it on the cert. as a deviation.

KME

Quite Right. Thats what i know.

 

[kme]

Rev. James is also correct; I too use NICEIC red forms (although ALL colours ask for this; or r2)

 

[gordy71]

I always thought it makes no reference to filling out a minor works certificate in the regs, hence r1+r2 and all other tests should be carried out.

 

[paul b b]

thanks chaps,

can i test at the switch? or do i have to find the end of the circuit via the light fitting.

also on the RCD note... so i can replace like for like with no rcd as long as i note it on the cert?

many thanks

 

[kme]

Test at the switch, but put that down on the cert.

As for the RCD - inorder to issue your cert. on that cct, it really ought to be compliant. If you can`t, then state the omission on the cert, along with the reason for the omission. Remember, you are covering your backside here. If I was in the situation where I knew it should be done, but customer wouldn`t pay, I`d prob. go to the extend of adding a sentence or two to the bottom of the invoice, stating the need for an RCD/RCBo, and confirming that the customer has been informed of this.

Yo bum is well & truly protected then, eh?

KME

 

[Risteard]

R1+R2 not a requirement on a minor works.

Isn't Zs required though, which includes (R1+R2)?

Either calculated or measured, you would still need to test at the extremity of the circuit either way either for the (R1+R2) value or the measured Zs for the circuit.

 

[professional]

Buuuuut,If you alter a cct which, due to the 17th, would require an RCD, you should be installing one (or an RCBo).

If you don`t you MUST put it on the cert. as a deviation.

KME

Please note that my post stated that additions/alterations do not AUTOMATICALLY require rcd protection, not that they never do.

 

[spinlondon]

This is taken from the notes for MWCs:

"Part 3 Essential Tests

The relevant provisions of Part 6 (Inspection and Testing) of BS 7671 must be applied in full to all minor works. For example, where a socket-outlet is added to an existing circuit it is necessary to:

1 establish that the earthing contact of the socket-outlet is connected to the main earthing terminal

2 measure the insulation resistance of the circuit that has been added to, and establish that it complies with Table 61 of BS 7671

3 measure the earth fault loop impedance to establish that the maximum permitted disconnection time is not exceeded

4 check that the polarity of the socket-outlet is correct

5 (if the work is protected by an RCD) verify the effectiveness of the RCD."

With the one about the lack of RCD, do not note it as a deviation. Place a note in the area for comments on existing installation.