Rules for RCDS/RCBO's in a domestic installation

[Mr Moon]

I've just had a NAPIT registered electrician come to inspect my house (i'm going to be renting it out) and has failed me because there is (and I quote) 'no earth leakage unit' present in board'. Does a DB in a home have to have a certain amount of RCD's RCBO's? I know that you do if you have any outside electrics, which I don't - my house just consists of the bog standard downstairs ltg, upstairs ltg, downstairs ring main upstairs ring main, kitchen and bathroom ciruits. The electrician informed my wife (who was the only one at home at the time) that it would be cheaper to install a brand new board (we have a Crabtree Loadstar).

Can anyone advise please? Many thanks :C

 

[Theorysparky]

Hi mate

did you get a written report from this sparky ???

I think we are missing some info here,,,,,,,,,,supplementary bonding is it in place ???

cheaper to install a new board ??? compared with the remedials required ?????

As for RCD/RCBO's no requirement for existing installations but a RCD socket for power items likely to be used in the garden is a good recommendation

like i said we are missing lots of info

 

[m4tty]

Post up the written report so we can have a look. Cheers

 

[Theorysparky]

Post up the written report so we can have a look. Cheers

if he got one !!!!!

 

[Megaohm7]

It could have been misinterpreted. ie does not comply with 17th edition. You cant apply the regs retrospectively just make sound recommendations. It's up to the houseowner what they do at the end of the day for they pay the money.

 

[a1]

Mr Moon,

If you prefer, you could e-mail the report to me (PM me for my e-mail address) directly and I will remove all the personal details off of the report for you and the revised report to your OP (Opening Post) for you.

I will remove your name, address, and that of the electrician who carried out the PIR. (or; naturally, you could do it yourself), if you had a report.

Regards,

Admin.

 

[S60TEM]

take into account that if the report has been instructed by a letting agent or an insurance company also that as it's a rental then they may have clauses requiring RCD protection for the buy to let, insurance etc etc.

I've just done 7 student lets and the clauses in them were rediculous

 

[Theorysparky]

^ interesting....

more info needed from the op then......

 

[PC Electrics]

If you went to a car rental company for a car would you be happy to rent a 1970s Marina off them??? No, I didn't think so. You'd want a fairly new car that had good safety features, not something that would crumple to bits in a flash.

So why do you think it is acceptable to rent out a house to someone with 1970s wiring and fuses?

Current wiring regs require RCDs for sockets, bathroom circuits, buried cables and more. RCDs are the electrical equivalent of the airbags and safety structure in a modern car. You should provide your tenants with the necessary safety (RCDs and smoke alarms) to meet your legal 'duty of care'. Most [good] rental agencies insist upon it.

General Public : Electrical Safety Council

 

[Theorysparky]

Here is the crux of it

landlord dont want to spend the money on stuff they do not legally need.....

 

[a1]

If you went to a car rental company for a car would you be happy to rent a 1970s Marina off them???

Yes, I would!

No, I didn't think so. You'd want a fairly new car that had good safety features, not something that would crumple to bits in a flash.

Most cars for leasing purposes are cars like a car, but not spelt like it . Wheels too close to the back and full of plastic. You get hit from behind and there is a strong chance that the insurance company may right it off. Give me a proper car like the Morris Minor any day, mate.

 

[PC Electrics]

Here is the crux of itlandlord dont want to spend the money on stuff they do not legally need.....

or so they think. There's at least a couple of landlords enjoying stripped sunlight right now because they failed in their 'duty of care' over smokes or lectrix.

 

[Theorysparky]

I agree

you can point out the issues but you cant make them act on it

 

[batty]

At the end of the day there is no law to say you have got to bring your electrics up to date since the 17th edition probably 95% of houses in this country don't comply with this edition but remember if the worst happened and a tenant were to die due to you having no RCD protection I think as the landlord you would be responsible. I don't tend to do many PIR's but I would recommend RCD are fitted on sockets at least. It may be your agent insist your property complies with current regulatiuons to protect themselves if something were to go wrong.

 

[Theorysparky]

on all my reports for rented properties i always recommend RCD protection

if they dont take heed then at least im covered and so is the agency

 

[S60TEM]

here's an example for you guys then.

Whilst testing these student lets I found that the interlinked smoke alarms that had been fitted by an alarm company into all the bedrooms and communal areas had no cpc continuity as they had been cut out! Now obviously I failed this for the numerous reasons, MCB would fail to trip, no earth return path .......basically NO protection in the event of a fault etc. I told the landlord who was very helpful to be honest but wanted me to speak to the alarm company about it as he had paid them a lot of money to get this done by law.

The guy from the alarm company said that they didn't need an earth as they were a class 2 fitting and double insulated and thats why there was no cpc connected between them.

OK then, you have 8 students living in a terrace property, each having their own room aswell as the living room, kitchen etc. It aint their house........what happens if they throw a wild party and trash the place?! including smashing down the smoke alarms because they are annoying when they go off for all the green they are smoking! Then you'll have 230V cables within reach with NO CPC.............a drunk student showing off to his flatmates will probably think it's a good trick to say "Watch me whilst I touch these wires!"....................DEAD! Who's fault is it now!!!!

RCBO or RCD wouldn't trip, MCB wouldn't trip etc. Who's Duty of Care has it become? Landlords? Fire Alarm Company? or the Electrician who PIR'd the property and missed it or "let it go"?????????

Risk Assessment guys!!!! Always with a rental, think of the worst most unlikely scenario as it may happen!

RCDS and RCBO's are a MUST in Rentals IMO.

 

[steptoe]

I agree S60

BUT,

we cant fail/unsatisfactory for simply a non-compliance ,

can we?

if that was the ONLY fault I dont think I would fail it providing everything else was OK,

its only a code 4 after all,

but, like you said, a look at the bigger picture is a must on PIRs

 

[S60TEM]

I would totally agree with you Steps in normal circumstances ie: A normal house with owner occupier etc I would give it a code 4 but a rental I would deffo code 2 it.

oh and PS: LOL @ your Avatar!! I've just scanned it.

 

[PC Electrics]

I'm with you all the way Scott. Code 2 in a rental - as the inspecting engineer it is up to you to take into account the purpose of the PIR (stated at the top of page 1), namely an assessment for rental purposes.

Yes, in a private house occupied by the owner then code 4.

 

[steptoe]

@ your Avatar

Im gonna start changing it randomly,

its all BARX fault you know,

and all these other peeps that keep changing theirs,

but ultimately, its Admins fault for breaking the one I had to start with,