shaver spured of sockets

[batty]

Well I downloaded a sheet for BG nexus shaver socket in the instructions it says it can be connected to an earthed lighting circuit or ring main via a joint box there is no mention of a spur but personlly I put them on lighting circuits.

 

[steptoe]

I think the fused spur would be a matter of good practice.

must be something people dont bother with anymore,

well I going to assume NOT to do something unless I am specifically told I MUST do it.

not exactly a good viewpoint IMHO.

(but what do I know?).

 

[Apache]

I think the fused spur would be a matter of good practice.must be something people dont bother with anymore,

well I going to assume NOT to do something unless I am specifically told I MUST do it.

not exactly a good viewpoint IMHO.

(but what do I know?).

If it's not in the instructions and not a regulation what's the issue.

Who'd have thought before the 17th edition came in you could have a 3 pin socket in the bathroom? With RCD's then I don't see how there's any more risk on a 32A or 6A breaker?

 

[steptoe]

its about good practice,

you dont have 13a fuses in all your plug tops do you?

plus, as its a spur it would need fusing at some point,

which is not going to happen via the 2pin shaver plug,

so I would think it is in the regs to have it fused at the point of spurring.

quite aside from that,

good practice is simply going beyond the regs to do things to the standard expected of a professional and not Joe from the pub.

what exactly is your point Apache?

one minute you are on a thread stating competency is a minimum, now you are saying go by the regs to a T and dont try and achieve higher standards.

---------- AUTO MERGE Post added at 22:35 ---------- Previous post was at 22:34 ----------

If it's not in the instructions and not a regulation what's the issue.Who'd have thought before the 17th edition came in you could have a 3 pin socket in the bathroom? With RCD's then I don't see how there's any more risk on a 32A or 6A breaker?

RCDs do NOT provide overcurrent protection.!

 

[Andy™]

With RCD's then I don't see how there's any more risk on a 32A or 6A breaker?

if something goes wrong with transformer, then all thats there to protect it is a 32A MCB, compared to 6A (if on lighting circuit), or 3A (if fused)

 

[Evans Electric]

Can't comment further as I'm extinct.

 

[Andy™]

Can't comment further as I'm extinct.

not for long Deke. dont forget your on Sky Action, sunday 14th, 0840

 

[Apache]

good practice is simply going beyond the regs to do things to the standard expected of a professional and not Joe from the pub.what exactly is your point Apache?

I think good practice is complying to the regs, not making your own up? If you read my replies in the other thread I refer to conformity to agreed reg/standards (my highway code analogy?).

My point is - is there a regulation that says you have to fuse down? I like to understand why you need to do things, not because someone has decided it's 'good practice'.

one minute you are on a thread stating competency is a minimum, now you are saying go by the regs to a T and dont try and achieve higher standards. RCDs do NOT provide overcurrent protection.!

I know that, but can you please explain to me how the isolating transformer works? I thought by separating the socket from the mains only a small current could flow protecting the user of said equipment? Have I got this wrong?

 

[Andy™]

I thought by separating the socket from the mains only a small current could flow protecting the user of said equipment? Have I got this wrong?

but if the fault is in the primary side, then you get the problems

 

[Apache]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Evans Electric]

The primary winding of the transformer is ,on this job, connected directly to the ring main therefore it is protected by a 32A fuse/MCB . Anything plugged into the shaver only works from the induced voltage in the secondary winding which is earth free and only exists between the two plug pins , no potential difference between the pins and earth so no shock.

Imagine if the shaver was one of the cheapo Chinese specials with a pretend BS number , the varnishes on the windings have been shown to be inferior and could break down , which means the insulation between primary and secondary windings breaks down so instead of isolating the secondary safety output it puts a direct mains connection there.

The same as the imported ,counterfeight, phone and games chargers which have been known to put 240v into your cellphone etc.

If this happened ,would the 32A fuse blow ? Everything else that is actually plugged into the ring would have the appropriate fuse in it's plug top but the primary of the shaver won't.

Still , what do I know ? :C

 

[NozSpark]

Personally I'm with Deke here...

Either run it off the lighting circuit or via a fuse spur off the socket circuit.

It may not say in regs or MI's that it must be fed like that, but that's the way I'd do it; there is no harm in exceeding the regs or MI's

 

[Apache]

Thanks Deke.

The RCD should still trip at 30mA whatever the fuse?

 

[kme]

`pache.

The RCD would only trip to an earth fault; not an overload.

As regards the isolating TX; your interpretation of its purpose is incorrect.

Technically, you can touch EITHER (but not both!) of the secondary terminals, without any risk of shock; as there is no reference point for the induced voltage (i.e. it has no reference to earth whatsoever). Therefore, a fault on the secondary is limited only by the thermal fuse which is integral to the primary winding (on a proper CE piece of kit!)

Therefore, you could technically have an induced current in the secondary limited (for a short time) by the primary protective device for overcurrent.

Under these circumstances, and picking up on Albert`s comment, "best practice" is not always specifiable by a particular page or reg. no.

It`s something that "jurassic sparks" (who were taught properly), learnt on their way to becoming an electrician.

KME

 

[sellers]

Jurassic sparks? I thought that was a well known phrase? Usually it refers to the old sparks who think anything other than a ring is bad practice. Had one who was a forman at a place I worked at who insisted that all circuits were wired in its phase colours regardless if it was a single phase circuit. Not a dig evans just a comical phrase.

Back onto the shaver, surely its good practice to follow the nessasary guidelines, the ones that stand up in front of the judge? Yes a fused spur might be the ideal way in an ideal world but sadly we aren't in an ideal world. Idealy I'd re-wire the house to the 17th and pop some solar panels on the roof.

 

[NozSpark]

Sellers,

Is this penny pinching or is there a physical reason that you can't fit a fused spur?

 

[sellers]

yeah theres a few reasons, it may ruin decoration, it will add on to the cost + time of the job and I don't need to fuse down for it? Would you call it penny pinching everytime you spured off a socket without fusing?

 

[NozSpark]

yeah theres a few reasons, it may ruin decoration, it will add on to the cost + time of the job and I don't need to fuse down for it? Would you call it penny pinching everytime you spured off a socket without fusing?

Obviously we've not seen the job, you have!

The only time I wouldn't fuse a spur would be if it was to another socket outlet - remembering that the overload protection of that spurred section is determined by the fuse in the plug that gets plugged in.

in this case I would fuse down

 

[Apache]

Obviously we've not seen the job, you have!The only time I wouldn't fuse a spur would be if it was to another socket outlet - remembering that the overload protection of that spurred section is determined by the fuse in the plug that gets plugged in.

in this case I would fuse down

How about one of these to keep everyone happy?

http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/mk-electric-moulded-shaver-socket-outlet-fused-single-gang-200-250v-86mm-x-86mm-white/1000006579/ProductInformation.raction?campaign=Googlebase

 

[NozSpark]

How about one of these to keep everyone happy?http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/mk-electric-moulded-shaver-socket-outlet-fused-single-gang-200-250v-86mm-x-86mm-white/1000006579/ProductInformation.raction?campaign=Googlebase

Doesn't comply for bathrooms as it does not have an isolating transformer! :_|