Socket and switch heights in Scotland

[ProDave]

Simple question. Are there any restrictions on Socket and switch heights in Scotland?

I know English and Welsh building regs impose minimum and maximum heights, but it never used to be the case in Scotland.

However, I see the Building Standards Scotland were ammended in 2009. I've had a quick look through them and I still can't see any mention of switch or socket heights.

So can anyone confirm that it is still the case that there are no restrictions in Scotland, or have they inserted some limits that I have not yet found?

I'm due to start first fixing a new build any day now, so want to be sure.

 

[Evans Electric]

Have you got your own Regs up there then ? In England/Wales there are new heights for disabled access , don't know about Scotland other than there are loads of midges!!

Deke

 

[Apache]

Have you got your own Regs up there then ? In England/Wales there are new heights for disabled access , don't know about Scotland other than there are loads of midges!! Deke

I'd imagine the light switches would need to be low down the wall for when they crawl home from the pub...............

:coat

 

[Evans Electric]

You can't say things like that Patch, you'll get a Glasgow kiss .

 

[ProDave]

Yes, we have our own set of building regulations up here.

The older ones, pre 2009 definitely had no restriction on switch and socket heights.

The 2009 version however is not just minor tweaks here and there, they have been completely re written in a different format and with a different indexing system (i.e no longer part A, part B etc)

I've had a brief read through the main section and I still can't find any reference to socket and switch height limits, but that does not mean they are not there somewhere. I guess if nobody knows I'm going to have to phone the building inspector and ask him directly.

One benefit of course of different building regs is we do not have part P up here.

If anybody wants some reading, the new regs are here:

http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/tech_handbooks/tbooks2009.htm

EDIT: I've done some further reading:

Section 4 of this document deals with elecrical safety : http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/tech_handbooks/th_pdf_2009/Section_4_Domestic_May_2009.pdf

There is a limit on minimum and maximum height for door entry systems, but no mention of sockets or switches.

It also sets out the minimum number of sockets in each room, and minimum lighting levels.

But I still can't see any reference to hight restrictions for sockets and switches, so unless someone digs deeper and finds it somewhere else, I think there is no restriction.

 

[jimleen]

Dave,

It's the same regs - sockets 400mm off floor and light switches tit height. O)

The SBS are only standards, more code of practice than anything. Anyway, the socket heights and what have you are conditions of planning permission. You're stuck with what's specified on the drawings.

Personally, I think the heights are great. No indigestion wiring up sockets now.

 

[a1]

Dave,It's the same regs - sockets 400mm off floor and light switches tit height. O)

ROTFWLROTFWLROTFWLROTFWL

Thank Gawd I weren't drinking coffee, when I read that.

 

[Lurch]

It's the same regs - sockets 400mm off floor and light switches tit height. O)

Same as what? You'd have to be bloody short to have a switch at tit height fitted to the English part m.

 

[ProDave]

Dave,It's the same regs - sockets 400mm off floor and light switches tit height. O)

The SBS are only standards, more code of practice than anything. Anyway, the socket heights and what have you are conditions of planning permission. You're stuck with what's specified on the drawings.

Personally, I think the heights are great. No indigestion wiring up sockets now.

Where does it say that? where are the heights defined?

I went to see the job this morning. CUSTOMER wants sockets at 300mm.

I have the drawings, nowhere on the plans does it specify switch or socket height.

The PLANNING department never look at finished property, except perhaps to check if certain conditions (like landscaping details) have been adhered to. I have never heard of socket and switch heights being made a condition of planning permission.

So if anybody is going to enforce particular height restrictions, it will be building control, and they can only do that by referring to the building standards as that is what they have to enforce.

So this comes back to are there height restrictions in the building standards, and I haven't found any - yet.

 

[jimleen]

Dave,

I used to have a link to a Scottish Government/Executive/Reichstag site website that had a pretty comprehensive brief on the building regs. Unfortunately that was on my last computer, which died of boredom I think. After, literally, minutes of trying, I've not been able to find it again. But I did find this link...

http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/11537/s/Q-A-of-the-Day-Scottish-Building-Standards-what-socket-heights.html

Which says that sockets are 400mm off the floor, and switches are 900-1100mm. Which is what we short ars*s call tit height.

Like I said before, the SBS are standards. Which means another couple of hundred civil servants get paid to make sure that we get confused about which regulatory body to obey.

I admit I was being flippant about the planning permission issue. And yes the building warrant is important. But let's face it, when the council come to a site they're always more interested in the drains. And how many times have you seen contractors spending a right few hours rehearsing their drain test?

But with newbuilds there's usually a drawing with the spec for the job written at the side. Sometimes there's even a spec sheet. The electrical stuff's usually buried underneath the important things like brick colour, soffet vents and what have you. What's more important is actually checking that everybody's reading off the same page. You'd think that the on-site drawings would be the latest revisions, wouldn't you? Oh how you laugh when you go to do the last fix on an open plan living room/dining room thing with 2 way lights. And find that a freaking stud wall got put up in between times.

So I've been using those min/max heights for a few years now. And yes they do look too low or too high. So if your CUSTOMER wants sockets 300mm off the deck, well it's a reasonable height. But remember, it's up to you to tell them the freaking rules.

And with that off my chest it's back to the fantastic bottle of wine I got out of Tesco. And by fantastic I mean cheap and drinkable. A mere three quid a bottle.

Or the price of a really good neon tester. ROTFWL

 

[batty]

Dave,I used to have a link to a Scottish Government/Executive/Reichstag site website that had a pretty comprehensive brief on the building regs. Unfortunately that was on my last computer, which died of boredom I think. After, literally, minutes of trying, I've not been able to find it again. But I did find this link...

http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/11537/s/Q-A-of-the-Day-Scottish-Building-Standards-what-socket-heights.html

Which says that sockets are 400mm off the floor, and switches are 900-1100mm. Which is what we short ars*s call tit height.

Like I said before, the SBS are standards. Which means another couple of hundred civil servants get paid to make sure that we get confused about which regulatory body to obey.

I admit I was being flippant about the planning permission issue. And yes the building warrant is important. But let's face it, when the council come to a site they're always more interested in the drains. And how many times have you seen contractors spending a right few hours rehearsing their drain test?

But with newbuilds there's usually a drawing with the spec for the job written at the side. Sometimes there's even a spec sheet. The electrical stuff's usually buried underneath the important things like brick colour, soffet vents and what have you. What's more important is actually checking that everybody's reading off the same page. You'd think that the on-site drawings would be the latest revisions, wouldn't you? Oh how you laugh when you go to do the last fix on an open plan living room/dining room thing with 2 way lights. And find that a freaking stud wall got put up in between times.

So I've been using those min/max heights for a few years now. And yes they do look too low or too high. So if your CUSTOMER wants sockets 300mm off the deck, well it's a reasonable height. But remember, it's up to you to tell them the freaking rules.

And with that off my chest it's back to the fantastic bottle of wine I got out of Tesco. And by fantastic I mean cheap and drinkable. A mere three quid a bottle.

Or the price of a really good neon tester. ROTFWL

Don't drop it in your wine, if you do you will get a belt.

 

[ProDave]

In case anyone is interested, I have the definitive answer on this now, having phoned my local building inspector.

It's detailed in section 4.8.5 "access to manual controls", the document is here: http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/tech_handbooks/th_pdf_2009/Section_4_Domestic_May_2009.pdf

Sockets between 400mm and 1200mm, light switches between 900 and 1100mm, sockets minimum 150mm above worktops, and nothing within 350mm from a corner.

I can see that 350mm from a corner one being tricky. A doorway close to the corner of the room springs to mind. Normally you might put a light switch on the thin bit of wall between the doorway and the corner, but this regulation prohibits that, forcing you to put the switch round the corner, 350mm from the corner. So a regulation to aid accessibility will force some light switches to be much further from the doorway than necessary.

By the way, these changes came into effect in 2007 in Scotland, prior to that there were no restrictions on position of electrical fittings.

 

[PBC_1966]

It's detailed in section 4.8.5 "access to manual controls", the document is here: http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/tech_handbooks/th_pdf_2009/Section_4_Domestic_May_2009.pdf

I've not studied the situation in Scotland in any detail, but isn't that merely guidance, in the same way that the "Approved Documents" in England are guidance?

I'm assuming that the only actual law is the part quoted in the box for mandatory section 4.8 which says only that:

Every building must be designed and constructed in such a way that:{.....}

(e) manual controls for ventilation and for electrical fixtures can

be operated safely.

 

[ProDave]

Interesting point.

When I spoke to the building inspector on the phone, I raised my concern about the 350mm from corners, to which he replied that's down to the discretion of the building inspector making the inspection to determine if a particular switch position is acceptable.

I think for the sake of an easy ride it's best to try and accommodate the requirements where reasonable.