Syria
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They have pretty much Russia, Iran and China backing them Wozz, so they are liking their chances. On top of that Al Queda have infiltrated the protesters apparently.
Andy Guinness
Andy Guinness
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I can't say I understand it but feel something has to be done its just a shame its always us that seems to get involved.
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Here we go again poking our nose into someone else's war.
From what I have heard on the radio, the overwhelming majority of UK citizens oppose any military intervention.
Parliament will debate and vote on Thursday. Time to lobby your MP so his vote represents the wishes of his constituents.
And if MP's votes do not match the wishes of the electorate, then you must all make a careful mental note of how the MP's voted against the wishes of the people, and make YOUR vote accordingly at the next general election.
Sadly, I can see us getting involved, there will be protests, but it won't make a jot of difference, like it never has done before. And by the time of the next election, people will have forgotten how we were lied to, and how our wishes were ignored, and will vote them back in again, Please don't make that mistake this time.
If they handle it properly UKIP could do very well from the political fallout from this.
From what I have heard on the radio, the overwhelming majority of UK citizens oppose any military intervention.
Parliament will debate and vote on Thursday. Time to lobby your MP so his vote represents the wishes of his constituents.
And if MP's votes do not match the wishes of the electorate, then you must all make a careful mental note of how the MP's voted against the wishes of the people, and make YOUR vote accordingly at the next general election.
Sadly, I can see us getting involved, there will be protests, but it won't make a jot of difference, like it never has done before. And by the time of the next election, people will have forgotten how we were lied to, and how our wishes were ignored, and will vote them back in again, Please don't make that mistake this time.
If they handle it properly UKIP could do very well from the political fallout from this.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
And that was a party political broadcast from our Scottish contingent!!!
Boots on the ground is a non starter with the exception of pathfinder/special op troop, I think you'll see sub and ship launched precision strikes on suspected and known wmd storage sites with follow up strikes on launch platforms of said wmd and SA asserts, leaving the way open for a no fly zone.......
Personally I'm for staying out of it, including not arming the rebels. But if our lads and lasses are sent in I will back them with all my support.
Personally I'm for staying out of it, including not arming the rebels. But if our lads and lasses are sent in I will back them with all my support.
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
It's becoming' how many wars can you have on the go unfinished at any one time' why don't our politicians just stick too sorting our country before they interfere with everybody else's. Or do they do it for distraction purposes, so they don't have too justify the mess they've made of our country?
I sometimes wonder what would happen if nobody gave these people the time of day.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if nobody gave these people the time of day.
what we are involved with are unconventional wars sometimes there will be no end its not like you are fighting a uniformed army, its if it makes a difference that matters not winning or killing all the opposition.
Personally I dont mind us using military force to preserve life if it is just and backed by other countries, I wouldnt say that lightly given that me and my family are more than most on here regularly use the targets that terrorists would like to bomb and blame our foreign policy. It does seem to be completely thankless though which is a bit gutting to say the least.
Arming / training rebels totally against, too much like trying to change a regime than preserving life.
No fly zones, weapons inspectors, missile strikes i could live with.
On another note, this chemical weapon thing i find nearly unbelievable. Assad is told in not so many words if you use them other countries will get involved and almost certainly you will loose, next thing they are used, next inspectors are sent in and get shot at. This must be a dream come true for the rebels! could it be them that had orchestrated this to drag other countries into the fight?
Personally I dont mind us using military force to preserve life if it is just and backed by other countries, I wouldnt say that lightly given that me and my family are more than most on here regularly use the targets that terrorists would like to bomb and blame our foreign policy. It does seem to be completely thankless though which is a bit gutting to say the least.
Arming / training rebels totally against, too much like trying to change a regime than preserving life.
No fly zones, weapons inspectors, missile strikes i could live with.
On another note, this chemical weapon thing i find nearly unbelievable. Assad is told in not so many words if you use them other countries will get involved and almost certainly you will loose, next thing they are used, next inspectors are sent in and get shot at. This must be a dream come true for the rebels! could it be them that had orchestrated this to drag other countries into the fight?
Manator
©Honorary Essex Boy™
Really guys you have no idea what is going on from day to day.
I fully understand that there are people who believe that non participation is a choice, but unfortunately this is not the case. For instance the nuclear capabilities in one country was delayed by some 4 years by a government backed virus that affected the servo motors.
We all live in a bubble expecting our rights to be protected by our inactions. This is not the case, and as I have always maintained if you have nothing to hide then any request for access should be allowed, this would have prevented the war in Iraq.
I always remember a poster on a motorway bridge that protested against the Falklands war, the poster read ' STOP THE WAR' alongside it someone had written 'WE DID'
I fully understand that there are people who believe that non participation is a choice, but unfortunately this is not the case. For instance the nuclear capabilities in one country was delayed by some 4 years by a government backed virus that affected the servo motors.
We all live in a bubble expecting our rights to be protected by our inactions. This is not the case, and as I have always maintained if you have nothing to hide then any request for access should be allowed, this would have prevented the war in Iraq.
I always remember a poster on a motorway bridge that protested against the Falklands war, the poster read ' STOP THE WAR' alongside it someone had written 'WE DID'
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
I don't wish to get all religious, but haven't these Arab/middle east people been fighting themselves for years? As I understand, and I am no expert but doesn't their faith/believes lead them to believe that they should take over the world? If so isn't this behaviour inevitable by them given their history?
We should stay right out of it... How would we feel if the chinese had invaded on the pretext of "saving" us from the IRA or them from us... How about if the russians invaded on the pretext that Plaid Cymru needed help....
I will tell you what will happen. Once our big bully boy "mate" america runs out of money, [and then decide they do not want to play anymore] all these countries we have illegally bombed and otherwise pissed off, will get their revenge. Make no mistake, they will not be hanging Mr cameron and brainless mates as war criminals, as they will have long since emigrated to america, it is US that will have to put up with attacks, missile and otherwise, from them......
john...
I will tell you what will happen. Once our big bully boy "mate" america runs out of money, [and then decide they do not want to play anymore] all these countries we have illegally bombed and otherwise pissed off, will get their revenge. Make no mistake, they will not be hanging Mr cameron and brainless mates as war criminals, as they will have long since emigrated to america, it is US that will have to put up with attacks, missile and otherwise, from them......
john...
There was once a time like that john when countries kept themselves to themselves and didnt want to show a united front to other countries then WW2 happened. The league of nations was weak hence the creation of NATO.
Do you think we should have stayed out the balkans?
im not saying its the same situation just interested.
Do you think we should have stayed out the balkans?
im not saying its the same situation just interested.
The program about the virus & the way it searched out the certain items it was tasked to around the world was an eye opener...........i did wonder if the 2 guys who cracked it were now in hiding.
Why is it that this country still struts the world stage as if it is still the 1930s when our fleet was larger than the US Navy and we wern't bankrupt from WW2 .
We're now bankrupted by the bankers but can still fund armed conflict .
Where are Austria, Switzerland, Germany, France, Norway , Denmark, Portugal, Spain, the Arab countries, etc.
I believe in maintaining our deterant ...it kept the Argentine fleet in the harbour.
Who would come to our aid I wonder ...the US again ?
We're now bankrupted by the bankers but can still fund armed conflict .
Where are Austria, Switzerland, Germany, France, Norway , Denmark, Portugal, Spain, the Arab countries, etc.
I believe in maintaining our deterant ...it kept the Argentine fleet in the harbour.
Who would come to our aid I wonder ...the US again ?
Sharpend
"It Just Is"
The question is have the Americans actually win any wars/battles other than against themselves?
whilst i agree to a extent, and the media are good at saying costing £xxxxx per day ect, its not like we employ more people to go do this stuff. We pay their wages whatever if there is a conflict or not our ships are out on routine exercises and tours.
was it one of the less sharp american presidents that said something along the lines of
Im not going to fire a 2million dollar rocket at an empty 2$ tent
or did I dream that?
a very good tag line all the same
Im not going to fire a 2million dollar rocket at an empty 2$ tent
or did I dream that?
a very good tag line all the same
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Okay, so there's a need for someone to do something if people use the "wrong" sort of weapon in a war.
But we don't want that someone to be us.
So who's going to "police" the world?
Ah, the United Nations.
So what's needed is for the UN to decide who has done wrong, and the UN to decide what action to take, and for the UN to dictate which UN member states carry out that action.
Then it ceases to be a political hot potato of which country takes action and why.
We don't have that procedure at the moment. I'm still left with the memory of the Iraq war, and the UK and the US picking over the wording of the UN mandate to see if they could stretch what the UN said, so suit what the US and UK wanted.
If the UN called all the shots (literally) they might have more respect.
But we don't want that someone to be us.
So who's going to "police" the world?
Ah, the United Nations.
So what's needed is for the UN to decide who has done wrong, and the UN to decide what action to take, and for the UN to dictate which UN member states carry out that action.
Then it ceases to be a political hot potato of which country takes action and why.
We don't have that procedure at the moment. I'm still left with the memory of the Iraq war, and the UK and the US picking over the wording of the UN mandate to see if they could stretch what the UN said, so suit what the US and UK wanted.
If the UN called all the shots (literally) they might have more respect.
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Wozz's Post#8 about the thing maybe being orchestrated................
Anyone see last weeks news item on the BBC and elesewhere, that went "The CIA has released documents which for the first time formally acknowledge its key role in the 1953 coup which ousted Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister, Mohammad Mossadeq."
Well aware that Assad was not democratically elected. Could we then argue that the US makes it's own problems by interfering? As in what goes around...............As for The Quran my understanding is that there are multiple passages in there which, taken out of context appear to encourage offensive action against non believers. But read 002.190 & 191 and you'll see "but begin not hostilities":
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191
Maybe it's like 7671 and open to interpretation?
Go off grid and tool up I reckon! :lol:
Anyone see last weeks news item on the BBC and elesewhere, that went "The CIA has released documents which for the first time formally acknowledge its key role in the 1953 coup which ousted Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister, Mohammad Mossadeq."
Well aware that Assad was not democratically elected. Could we then argue that the US makes it's own problems by interfering? As in what goes around...............As for The Quran my understanding is that there are multiple passages in there which, taken out of context appear to encourage offensive action against non believers. But read 002.190 & 191 and you'll see "but begin not hostilities":
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.191
Maybe it's like 7671 and open to interpretation?
Go off grid and tool up I reckon! :lol:
Technician
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One of the "issues" discussed after WW1 was the use (by
both sides) of chemical weapons. Chlorine gas was the
agent and from that time attempts have been made to have
its use as a weapon of war outlawed.
Irrespective of the outcome of any decisions made on the
other side of the pond, a message needs to be sent to ugly
and repressive regimes (and there are plenty of them) that
such weapons, when used in war or against a people by
their governments, howsoever elected (if at all), will NOT
be tolerated.
I have just read Onoff's post in full. Yes, the Qu'ran does
say something about this and one of the dreadful mistakes
made by many people when they quote this book is that they
FAIL UTTERLY to comprehend that it is a discourse, and the
quotation and application of specific sections or verses to
given situations is fundamentally incorrect. This has come
to me from people who have made a study of this book and
who possess an understanding greatly in excess of mine.
both sides) of chemical weapons. Chlorine gas was the
agent and from that time attempts have been made to have
its use as a weapon of war outlawed.
Irrespective of the outcome of any decisions made on the
other side of the pond, a message needs to be sent to ugly
and repressive regimes (and there are plenty of them) that
such weapons, when used in war or against a people by
their governments, howsoever elected (if at all), will NOT
be tolerated.
I have just read Onoff's post in full. Yes, the Qu'ran does
say something about this and one of the dreadful mistakes
made by many people when they quote this book is that they
FAIL UTTERLY to comprehend that it is a discourse, and the
quotation and application of specific sections or verses to
given situations is fundamentally incorrect. This has come
to me from people who have made a study of this book and
who possess an understanding greatly in excess of mine.
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