Two Earth Wires - Fitting New Pendent Light - Help!

[Joe Thompson]

Hi all, 

This is my first attempt at DIY on light fittings and really want to make sure i'm doing everything 100% correct before electrocuting myself! 

I have taken down my old light fitting, which was metal, and i'm putting up a new one which is fully insulated. 

The old light fitting had a black sheath with the live and neutral inside, and the earth was connected to the metal casing up to the rose on the ceiling. 

After removing all of this i have noticed on the ceiling rose that there are two earth cables coming from the ceiling which are both attached tot the role. The earth and neutral are attached to the block on the ceiling. 

Can anyone tell me why there are two earth wires? Am i safe to simply remove the live, neutral, and one of the earth wires and simply attach to the new block in my new lamp fitment. 

Unfortunately it will not let me post link or pictures so I cannot show you the pictures i took!

 

[Manator]

The two earth wires are basically a loop in and loop out. To maintain continuity of earth, these must be connected together. The class two fittings you are installing do not require an earth, but that does not mean that the earth can be omitted. Remember any cable requires to be fully protected during its length.

 

[a3]

Unfortunately it will not let me post link or pictures so I cannot show you the pictures i took!

You can post pictures now.

 

[ProDave]

 I think we need the picture?  I was thinking his description referred to the number of earth wires on the old fitting.

 

[Doc Hudson]

It sounds to me that the op is quite lucky he hasn't got a lot of supply and switch loop wires as well. Unless they are tucked up in the ceiling? But it would be interesting to know if these are singles or twin & earth. Could be old pre 1966 wiring with no original earths that an earth was added when the metal fitting was put up. How old is the property? What colours are your live and neutrals and earths,  Red/Black,  Brown/Blue,  Yellow+Green or just solid green?

Doc H.

 

[Joe Thompson]

Thanks for the replies, really appreciate your help!
 
Please see the pictures below. My property was built in the 1930s - although I had an electrician come round at one point and he said my wiring was 1970/80s.

So the wires are green, red, black coming out if the ceiling, but the original light fitting was installed using an additional brown, blue and green/yellow attached to the rose!

The first photo is how my ceiling looks now, and the second one is how the original class I fitting was attached. I hope this helps!

 

[Joe Thompson]

Hi 

Hopefully the photos will display in this post - having issues!

 

[ProDave]

I strongly suspect, if you remove that ceiling rose and have a look (with the power turned OFF!!!!), you will find more wires stuffed up in the ceiling void

there are probably 2 twin and earth cables, one being the feed and the other being the switch drop, so one earth from each. but someone has connected the loop through cable and stuffed the connection up in the hole. It should be joined in the light fitting in an accessible place.

Looking at the bottom picture you see a glimpse of a second red wire up in the hole.

Take careful note of EXACTLY how the wires are connected together before you disconnect anything. As you probably have two identical looking cables, label them in some way so you know which is which.  Make all the connections inside the light fitting, where you can get at them.

If none of that makes sense, call a local electrician.

 

[Joe Thompson]

Better get on the phone then!  :innocent

 

[Apache]

You need to connect those two earths on the rose together and either leave them in the void under the light fitting or push them back into the ceiling.

Use some connector strip or a lever Wago

This is a handy kit

http://cpc.farnell.com/wago/51228987/installer-box-basic-wago/dp/CN17110?in_merch=New%20Products

But this is the item you need

http://cpc.farnell.com/wago/222-412/terminal-block-w-lever-2cond-4mm/dp/CN12061?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range

26p and free delivery for online orders!

 

[Joe Thompson]

Thanks - this seems to go against what others have said though. The new light unit has a block to attach the three wires too, and I would assume you need to connect both earth wires to the earth terminal?

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi 

Hopefully the photos will display in this post - having issues!

As Prodave says there are some wires tucked up behind that rose. modern ceiling roses have more terminal points so all the wires can be connected inside the rose, yours appears to be an older design with just Live, Neutral & Earth.  One typical method of connecting roses is shown here, it may help understand why there are other wires tucked up behind.  However as you say, if you just put the Red into the live of the new light, Black into the neutral of the new light and the two earths into the earth connection (if they will both fit, some new lights have very small terminal connections), then your light should work.  



Doc H.

 

[Joe Thompson]

Thanks Doc!

As long as this does not pose a safety issue I will give it a go!

Thanks again for all your help.

Joe

 

[Apache]

Thanks - this seems to go against what others have said though. The new light unit has a block to attach the three wires too, and I would assume you need to connect both earth wires to the earth terminal?

It's really just giving you somewhere to park them. Either method is just as good.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I strongly suspect, if you remove that ceiling rose and have a look (with the power turned OFF!!!!), you will find more wires stuffed up in the ceiling void

there are probably 2 twin and earth cables, one being the feed and the other being the switch drop, so one earth from each. but someone has connected the loop through cable and stuffed the connection up in the hole. It should be joined in the light fitting in an accessible place.

Looking at the bottom picture you see a glimpse of a second red wire up in the hole.

Take careful note of EXACTLY how the wires are connected together before you disconnect anything. As you probably have two identical looking cables, label them in some way so you know which is which.  Make all the connections inside the light fitting, where you can get at them.

If none of that makes sense, call a local electrician.

No, not at all. If you look closely you can see a metal Conduit box. All the cables  look insulated so its wired in singles & not loop in. Who knows why there are 2 earth cables, it doesnt really matter. They may simply be one in and one to the back box.

Just connect the 2 earth cables together and put in a connector block with nothing else. The red will go to the brown of the new light and the black to the blue of the new light. Dont lose those fixing screws as they are probably 2BA thread.

You could  put both earth cables in the provided block if they will fit.

 

[Blue Duck]

That looks like a conduit box with 2ba's, Don't loose the screws they'll be hard to find at you local diy shop! - This also means that stuffing into the void is allowed as its contained within the conduit box but I would cocoon the loop connectors (if there are any) in tape to prevent any contact with the conduit or put them in the LIVE loop  on the rose.



edit: Damn you slipper!!! :slap   

 

[Joe Thompson]

Thanks guys - so im basically going to de-attached the wires in the current rose and shove them in the connector box on the new light fitting and hopefully the two earth wires will fit in, otherwise I will get a connector strip and cut off two piece and put the earths there.

One last question - the new fitting is a pendent light that needs a hook of some sort to latch on to - does this hook need to be nickel plated? Or can I somehow just hook it onto something on on the ceiling rose?

 

[Blue Duck]

You can get the hooks from most hardware stores as long as the holes line up with those on the conduit box / ceiling rose your good to go!

If not you can drill holes to fit.

Something like this...

Is the fitting ikea?

 

[Joe Thompson]

Ah cool I will try and get one of those! It's not ikea it's from habitat, just their basic pendant fitting.

Thanks for all the replies. I'll let you know how it goes

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Ask them for a  'number 9 Skyhook'    

Thanks guys - so im basically going to de-attached the wires in the current rose and shove them in the connector box on the new light fitting and hopefully the two earth wires will fit in, otherwise I will get a connector strip and cut off two piece and put the earths there.

Make sure the 2 earth cables are connected together.