Unexpected Reading Between Earth And Neutral

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not_shocked_yet

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[SIZE=10pt]Hi Everyone,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Please read ALL of the post below before contributing as the fault is unusual (for me, newly qualified).

My client called me out because turning on the lights in her (2009) converted stable block tripped the RCD (this is the main switch in the stable DB). Trying to re-set the rcd three times or so (it kept tripping) would then trip the (old) single RCD in the main house. To be clear, the house RCD is between the meter and the CCU.[/SIZE]

Turning on the CB's in the stable block one at a time determined that one of the lighting circuits was causing the trip.

Anyway, whilst performing safe isolation in the stable (with a Kewtech KT64DL) with the supply turned off at the main CCU in the house I recorded a <25v across Line and Neutral but 65V across Earth and Line and Earth and Neutral.

Removing the L, N and E at the CB in the main house for the supply to the stable DB recorded a normal reading of <25V across all L.N and E combinations.

To be clear the DB at the stable is approximately 250 feet from the main CCU. I don't know yet what the cable is to the building (thinking it should be armoured) if it is joined somewhere en-route (which I doubt) otherwise it looks like 6mm or similar twin and 2.5mm earth (it's the red and black variety) - thats what is showing at the CCU and the DB anyway.

Testing voltage at the main switch at the CCU: With the main switch on I recorded 245v across L and N supply and <25V across E and N and E and L. HOWEVER with the main switch off I recorded <25V between L and N and 165V across E and N and E and L.

This is a TT system.

I used a 2 pole voltage tester to also test between E and L,N but still had a reading of over 50V.

Am I looking at a ghost voltage causing the readings? Is the house safe - it seems to be when the system is energised? Could there be a potential difference between bonding and supplementary bonding if the power went off?

The house is thatched and had a periodic inspection 6 months ago (not the stable however) for insurance purposes. No problems were reported at the time to the owner.

I ran an earth fault loop impedance test at CCU and recorded 30.5 ohms.

Hoping this is just a ghost voltage, any thoughts are most welcome.

Many thanks in advance!

 

 
Testing voltage at the main switch at the CCU: With the main switch on I recorded 245v across L and N supply and <25V across E and N and E and L. HOWEVER with the main switch off I recorded <25V between L and N and 165V across E and N and E and L

245 L-N

<25 L-E.....!

Are you sure?.

What are ACTUAL values!....NOT. Approx <=>

Just saying

 
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Hi John,

I'm using a Kewtech 64DL that automates many of the functions.  It records <25V on the screen readout when there is no voltage between the terminals.  I guess it would give a specific reading if it was more than 25V.  Using a 2 pole voltage tester on the same terminals and same scenario recorded on lights and proved safe.

 
I just checked the specs for the kewtech kt64dl multifunction tester and the voltage test range is 25-500V, so that is as good as it gets.

 
as someone here once said, if you havent found the fault, you havent done enough testing. go through all the correct testd and you will find the problem

 
Hey Andy, absoluetly.  But not so helpful a reply in the circumstances.  If I knew where to test this I would be doing it.  I was hoping the for a pointer that experienced people like you might be able to provide.  Show me what you know please.

 
If it was me then, i would disconnect the feed to the stables at the house, and then go through all the tests you would do if you were testing a new installation, soon find fault then. Presumably it will be confined to the stables. Damp and wet spiders webs and general muck in light fittings and stuff. Does it all look presentable, or normal "farm standard" wiring???

john...

 
Hey Andy, absoluetly.  But not so helpful a reply in the circumstances.  If I knew where to test this I would be doing it.  I was hoping the for a pointer that experienced people like you might be able to provide.  Show me what you know please.

Got any money???

What 87 said, disconnect the stables and go mad with an MFT :)

 
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Hi John,

The issue here is not the stable, I know that the lighting circuit is causing the fault and next step is to run a continuity/insulation resistance to identify the fault and where it is.

My post above was really about the issue of reading volts or no volts when the system is energised or de-energised (both in the main house CCU and the stable DB) which I can't figure out?

I have the yellow as well!

 
Oh i see....

Well, i would DEFINITELY still start at the beginning and do all the tests on the entire stable block That way, you know in your own mind that everything is as it should be....

You need to start at the beginning and do things methodically..

Once you do this, you will know what is what, otherwise everything is just a guess...

john...

 
As Andy said, you need to do dead tests, continuity L-N, L-E & N-E and insulation test with joined together L&N to E if any current using equipment is connected.

 
Hi John,

As the issue is happening at the CCU in the house at 165V on earth with main switch off and 65V on earth at DB in stable with the main switch off (I'm guessing voltage drop over 250 odd feet distance is the reason for the difference) I guess the testing should start at the house - in this issue the fault tripping at the stable is a red herring.  The reason I am asking for pointers on this forum is that I dont know of the usual stable (excuse the pun here) of tests that can help.

 
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