Vde Insulated Multi-Bit Screwdriver

[Andy Mills]

I work for a major hand tool company.  We are developing a new VDE insulated multi-bit ratchet screwdriver with inter-changeable bars.

This will provides better value, faster work and less space in tool box versus carrying multiple tradition fixed bar VDE screwdrivers.  The tips will also have a slim profile to allow access into tight areas.  The product will be fully insulated to 1,000v.

The question from engineering team - does the professional electrician really need a 'ratchet' mechanism with this product.

I have argued that the ratchet allows for more control, faster work, etc.  But I cannot prove this.

So I would be really grateful for your profesional feedback to help answer whether you would prefer a ratchet. 

Many thanks for the help.

 

[NozSpark]

IMHO I think that a ratchet isn't needed and will lead to UN-necessary bulk.

I have a set of Wera Kraftform and a Draper torque screwdriver set... Both have interchangeable bits and are 1000V rated and I don't have a problem with them.... If I need to drive a screw into a tough material then my impact driver comes out

 

[roys]

Like most people on here I use a screwdriver just about every day, but I can't remember the last time I used a ratchet screwdriver, like Noz said if speed or power is required the battery / impact driver is out.

I still have a Yankee screwdriver which is a ratchet and pump action screwdriver but there will be a thick layer of dust on it now. In fact I think I do remember the last I used it, I think it was 1988 which is when I got my 1st battery drill and the Yankee got put out to pasture.

 

[Lurch]

Most screws that you would tend to use a VDE screwdriver on would provide no resistance for the ratchet to work against apart from the last turn or 2 so it would be a complete waste of time.

 

[kerching]

I,have Wiha multibit set and also,a WERA version

The WIHA offereing does not have a very good locking mechanism for the bits...they are always falling out and getting lost

Cannot see a ratchet being of any use really

 

[Andy™]

for most used drivers i wouldnt bother with interchangeable... too much hassle, easier having 1 of each

 

[binky]

my favourite screwdriver is an old wooden handled flat blade I've had for years - I don't use it for electrical work, but I do love ratchet screwdrivers. Makes it easy to install a screw whilst holding an item without digging out a drill.

 

[Andy Mills]

Many thanks for all your feedback.  So far it seems that the ratchet is not a strong feature you will pay more for. 

Feedback summary :-

• Ratchet gives unnecessary bulk in handle
• Electrical screws are very small and need less effort to drive home - so ratchet no benefit
• Impact driver used when speed / more torque required

 

[NozSpark]

I think it'll also be technically quite difficult to attain VDE compliance with the ratchet mechanism,,,, although they have managed it with torque drivers

 

[kerching]

And.......a bit fell,out of my multi bit driver this morning, again!

As idid not know what the screw head was i took multibit up scaffold with me along with snips and T150

Then had to climb all way down again to get a driver as the fecking blade had dropped out never to be seen again

Just saying

 

[Blue Duck]

^^^ wiha?

mine live in the van til I find something that needs torquing for that reason!

 

[Sidewinder]

Many thanks for all your feedback.  So far it seems that the ratchet is not a strong feature you will pay more for. 

Feedback summary :-

• Ratchet gives unnecessary bulk in handle
• Electrical screws are very small and need less effort to drive home - so ratchet no benefit
• Impact driver used when speed / more torque required

Yes to all, but, insulated tools only needed for limited uses anyway as live working is pretty much prohibited by EAWR.

Insulated tools only ever used for 2nd fixing anyway, and not so much because the fixings are small, but because they are machined threads so the coefficient of friction between the male and female threads is low and more often than not, if of a suitable quality less than the "coefficient of friction" that results in the ratcheting mechanism, thus the fastener generally does not generate sufficient counter torque to allow a ratchet mechanism to function, that is until the completion of tightening, by which time the advantage of the ratchet is lost.

As far as first fixing goes, why use insulated tools, no need, no live components, hence the use of the impact / power driver.

If you are using insulated tools for first fixing then you have a good chance of wearing them out/damaging them such that they will not protect you in the event of you genuinely requiring the protection they afford in the very rare case that you absolutely have to put a tool onto a live connection.

 

[Essex1]

Personally I have never liked impact, electric or torque drivers. Especially on terminals. You need to feel the tightness in order to not over tighten and damage the copper.

 

[Sidewinder]

Pretty much what i said Essex, the only thing is because of the muppets & 5ww the manufacturers now require the terminations to be tightened to a specified torque.

So you are going to have a job of avoiding using a torque driver.

There is also no reason for you not to still feel the tension in the fastener with a torque driver anyway.

It just confirms that the termination is as tight as it must be according to the designer and manufacturer of the termination.

 

[Essex1]

Pretty much what i said Essex, the only thing is because of the muppets & 5ww the manufacturers now require the terminations to be tightened to a specified torque.

So you are going to have a job of avoiding using a torque driver.

There is also no reason for you not to still feel the tension in the fastener with a torque driver anyway.

It just confirms that the termination is as tight as it must be according to the designer and manufacturer of the termination.

But the manufacturer does not take into fact the size and/or quality of the cable. This is the reason I think they should not be used. I imagine the torque settings are the same for a 6 amp breaker as they are for a 63 amp breaker (if I am wrong please say). There are obvious huge differences between the cables that are likely to be used.

 

[Sidewinder]

The torque settings are based on the thread size, thus the same torque will apply the same axial force to the something clamped by the thread, no matter what cable is in the connection.

It is not so clear as to how the connection is to be tightened, as in the process of work specifically, but that is where some of the issues are.

The bits between the clamping faces are what you are concerned with.

As am I.

However, the manufacturers state that no matter what is between the clamping faces as long as this meets their requirements and the thread is torqued to the set value then the resultant clamping force is as per design.

Thus the connection is adequate in their eyes.

Thus, they must then warrant the connection mechanism as it meets their design and installation criteria.

 

[kerching]

I,advocate flattening

Cable is invariably circular

Terminals are invariably square....apart from the ones that are not

something about round pegs in square holes.....my 5 year old granddaughter knows about that

So if the cables are closer to,the shape of the hole before being tightened then there should be more squishage per dibble

I still,think younshould always have a quick tug after you have finished anyway...but that is just me

Just saying

 

[OnOff]

I,advocate flattening

Cable is invariably circular

Terminals are invariably square....apart from the ones that are not

something about round pegs in square holes.....my 5 year old granddaughter knows about that

So if the cables are closer to,the shape of the hole before being tightened then there should be more squishage per dibble

I still,think younshould always have a quick tug after you have finished anyway...but that is just me

Just saying

I must admit to having a gentle tug with a pair of long nose pliers especially when everything's bunched in tight.

Especially on terminal blocks in panels. Most stuff I work with is stranded and bootlace ferruled. If it's all a bit tight and I'm "modding" I'll invariably flick the block off the DIN rail just to make sure the wire sits in properly.