What to do?

[Sharpend]

I'm thinking about furthering myself??

those who have please provide constructive discussion on what I'm to do? 

I'm looking at the HNC/HND Electrcial engineering course as distance learning with Teeside university, however what I need to know is what or where does that lead too? Job and pay scale? 

I've read that pay to start with is a miserly £30K p/a, does it improve beyond this? Otherwise should I just go for the 2396 and  take less time with same or more pay? 

Alternatively I thought maybe a full degree Electrcial engineering, similarly what and where does it lead? 

I'm not getting any younger and the knees are asking me to give up the tools! 

Thoughts or advice greatly received. 

I currently earn a good income over and above the £30k, enjoy the tools side of things but would like to get a bit more value to size out of the grey matter? 

 

[ProDave]

I did an HNC and HND, both part time and each took 2 years. HNC at Newbury, and HND at Reading.

Where it got me was designing and building industrial machinery. When I left 14 years ago (almost to the day) I was earning £40K I don't know what that would have escalated to now if I had stayed in that line of work. I begrudged the large % of my salary that the tax man took, followed closely by the building society.

I gave it all up to get out of the rat race, and ended up mortgage free by moving somewhere substantially cheaper. With the much lower outgoings it enabled me to take a step back and go back on the tools working mostly just part time. Earning a LOT less but having a better standard of living.

 

[Sharpend]

Two years each? Teeside are saying at least three years each? 

 

[ProDave]

Two years each? Teeside are saying at least three years each? 

That was one day and one evening a week at College.

 

[Evans Electric]

That is an excellent idea Sharpie depending on the answer to the following :

1.  Are you confident you can achieve those qualifications ?

2.  Can you afford the course fees especially if you fail? 

For the same reason (Knees)  I changed to supervising & estimating until we had to close down ....became self employed and returned to punishing my knees .

I'm afraid my brain would not carry me through such glittering prizes as HNC & HNDs .   To be honest , when supervising , I was happy to get out of the office & get round the jobs .

Those qualifications would get you into electrical design ...planning ... consultancy etc.     You could challenge  Sidey & Canoey for their crowns .

And of course , as you get older , the brain still takes  in loads of information , but it dissapears  in there  never to surface again  and you explode.

Take myself.... brain is now full up so I have a 20 T/byte memory stick in my ear like a Babel Fish  , if another set of Regs comes out I shall implode and become a Black Hole from which only bullshine will emit .                Which may already have happened. 

Is there a call for positions requiring those quallies  I ask ?      There is always the cul-de-sac of being over qualified to consider . 

 

[Rob.]

HNC and HND are fairly common place with the newer generations coming through. An thus don't hold anywhere near as much weight as they used to. 

Even degrees aren't what they were once seen as. Although if you got those qualifications you will be one step ahead with having experience. A lot of the young applicants I see have all the shiny pieces of paper. They have no idea what a screwdriver is though. 

Me, I did my degree years ago as the company was paying. I moved to be the site electrical engineer for 10 years ish. Salary was more than £30K

Now I've taken a side step in the field an have trained up over the past few years in machinery and process safety. Along with previous PLC and SCADA programming experience, I now work as a control systems engineer for a systems integrator. Mostly design and commissioning. 

 

[binky]

trouble is getting into an office at an advanced age to make use of such bits of paper.

 

[Tony S]

Some companies don’t want wet behind the ears youngsters. They may have the theory but they don’t have the practical knowledge.

 

[phil d]

Some companies don’t want wet behind the ears youngsters. They may have the theory but they don’t have the practical knowledge.

In one job I was involved with soft drink dispense equipment, the units were plastic and the pipes feeding them also a semi rigid plastic. It was standard practice to fit a short link of braided hose between the two, due to the pressures involved fractures could occur in the dispense heads. One time I was working on a cruise ship and this new lad was sent from head office to see how the work was done, he decided it would be more efficient in costs and time to do away with the braided link, I disagreed. He argued that he knew more than me as he had a degree from a university. To cut a long story short he installed half his way and I did mine the way we'd always done it.

We finished the install and powered up the units, for a few minutes nothing happened, "told you my way was better" he said with a rather smug tone, then it happened. There was a series of short sharp cracking sounds and liquid began to spray everywhere, the pressure caused flexing and being as how there was no braided link to absorb the movement it snapped the bases on all the units he'd installed. I think it was about 4 or 5 units at a couple of hundred quid each, plus cleaning up the mess, how efficient was that? lol.

I suppose it's a bit like that saying, "all the gear,no idea" having theoretical knowledge is one thing, practical knowledge is more valuable.

 

[Sharpend]

That is an excellent idea Sharpie depending on the answer to the following :

1.  Are you confident you can achieve those qualifications ?

2.  Can you afford the course fees especially if you fail? 

Confident by perseverance determination then yes, cost is irrelevant as I intend to pass, if I should fail then I've lost nothing as I'd probably only have wasted the money in other ways? 

@Rob. Would you advise degree or go to degree via the hnc/hnd route? 

 

[Evans Electric]

HNC and HND are fairly common place with the newer generations coming through. An thus don't hold anywhere near as much weight as they used to. 

Ah   right .     I date back to when we did C&Gs  A---B--- & C  .  I think HNC came after the C  and then onward & upward .   So to me , a HND in elecrical eng  is prestigeous.

I think anyone attaining a C&G  "C"   would be looking to get off the tools  TBH .  When the JIB Grading was introduced  a C would get you  a Technician Grade .

As said earlier , they are different worlds .  I remember a consultant specifying that the sub mains rising up through a 2 foot wide duct in  a building MUST have a certain distance between them .    If you thought about it with a practical head on you'd know that a 4 ft wide duct would be needed with these great big spaces between all the SWAs .    They were that over - engineered anyway I think they were twice the size we would have used .

 

[Rob.]

Confident by perseverance determination then yes, cost is irrelevant as I intend to pass, if I should fail then I've lost nothing as I'd probably only have wasted the money in other ways? 

@Rob. Would you advise degree or go to degree via the hnc/hnd route? 

The way the apprentices I had most recently did it was to do the hnc/hnd then the degree. As the HN qualifications was a good introduction to the higher maths needed for the degree. 

I'm not saying you couldn't go straight into a degree, if there are places that would accept you with prior qualifications. However if you have no experience with higher math, it may just be all too much to try and learn off the bat so to speak. 

Plus I believe, an don't quote me, but doing a 2 year HNC can be topped up in another year to HND, then another year top up would be a bachelors. Rather than 3 years straight at university. 

 

[Sharpend]

Thanks Rob, valuable advice. 

 

[Sidewinder]

Sharp,

I did C&G, then HNC in the 80's, then a little hiatus, and I did some more C&G, then I started my BSc.

I did struggle with the maths, in fact, when I went to the Uni open day, I went to the Technology people and told them my background, little did I know at the time, but, the guy I spoke to was the head of Technology in Wales.

His words to me would get swear filtered on the forum, but, the long and the short of it was, for me to go forth and do 2 years of maths first, then come back and do the Engineering.

I still consider that valuable advise today, and, unfortunately I have lost touch with the Gentleman, (A Dr. of Engineering), and it saddens me, he helped me a LOT during difficult times later in my degree, and when I was struggling for a project for my Masters dissertation, stepped in to assist me with a project with his company.

I didn't let him down academically, just myself, I only had a 2:1 a MEng, (I had a straight 1st @ Hons), but I feel that I have let him down by not keeping in touch with a mentor, and a role model.

Just me maudling.

Excuse that.

My advice, DO NOT go from C&G to Degree level, you WILL struggle with the Maths, degree level engineering is maths heavy.

Especially if you do classical electrical, such as power, and control, Fourier transforms, imaginary numbers, second & third order differential equations, to name but a few need to be mathematical methods you are familiar with, so just tools to use, rather than having to learn how to use the tools at the same time as learning to do the job as it were.

I started my Degree in 1994, & got my MEng at the graduation ceremony in Cardiff in 2005.

By which time I had got off the tools into design, applications and other aspects of business engineering.

Recession, big customers failing for my then employer, and some other business factors, and redundancy is a massive shock.

Going from a global blue chip control systems OEM, with a Co. Car, expenses, all the tools I needed, ongoing training and a salary which would look good even today was a massive shock.

My degree, and the fundamental understanding of engineering from first principles that it gave me was a massive help in my managing to survive, pay my mortgage and feed my kids over the last 12 years, so don't underestimate what a solid degree will give you.

You asked for advice and constructive discussion, well you have it, I have even bared some of my soul for you in an attempt to help you decide.

For me, I honestly believe that it has allowed me, even though I have been back on the tools pretty much for too long, not all BS7671 wise, to have kept my house & fed my kids, and, yes I do mean that.

Those around here who know us & what we have been through will understand and agree.

My advice, DO IT, I enjoyed it, but, then again I enjoy engineering, science and technology, my brain is a sponge, and even at 50, I still want to learn more and more, I regularly attend local IET meetings because I find the lectures interesting, nothing to do with CPD I promise!

I used to go before compulsory CPD anyway.

My biggest regret, so far on this aspect is not as yet, being Chartered.

HTH.

 

[Sharpend]

Thanks Sidey, my concern is that I may have just left it all too late being at top end of 40's now? Still better to give it a go than to regret not trying! 

 

[phil d]

Thanks Sidey, my concern is that I may have just left it all too late being at top end of 40's now? Still better to give it a go than to regret not trying! 

If you can afford it then do it! I'm 52 shortly and there are loads of things I regret not doing, ok I've been in a film, most people haven't, I've written a book (unpublished) but these are things I wanted to do, was fortunate enough to be able to do them so I did. I even addressed an audience at an event at the National Film Theatre in London and the one in Bradford, these  are things I've done but there's loads I haven't and I know I'll regret not doing them, especially as I had the chance to do some of them.

Go for it,even if you never use the qualification you'll still have it, and more importantly you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you could and did pass the course. Life's far too short for sitting around wondering, just do it!.

 

[roys]

I have 4 HND's, guess I just liked collecting them, anyways the two technical ones (electrical, control and measurement) were a lot harder than the non technical ones purely down to the maths which I was never the sharpest at.

How much use were they to me? they certainly opened a lot of doors for me in my career progression, not sure how much they actually helped me to do the job itself.

No regrets on what I did though, If I was to do it slightly differently, I might have cut back on a couple of the HND's and done a degree course, maybees.

Certainly makes no difference now as I have now retired yippee.

 

[Sharpend]

In that case Roys I couldn't acquire a spare HND if it's no longer required! :innocent  

 

[roys]

You can have all of them sharpie  bit of Photoshop and jobs a good un

 

[Evans Electric]

Certainly makes no difference now as I have now retired yippee.

Can I enroll you into the OPC  then Roys ?