Ze Too High

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jameseye12

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Hi all

Did a job the other day on a house, TNCS supply out in the sticks. Measured 0.41 ohms for Ze. I know this is too high for TNCS but phoned supplier and I don't think they'll do anything about it. This is fine, I've just noted it down on the EIC but my problem is I want to use the job for my ELECSA assessment and want to know if this is a problem. I wouldn't have thought it would be as what else can I do, but wanted to see what anyone else thought

Cheers

James

 
Paddler, does it not become your problem when it affects the Zessssess?

Can I hijack the thread and offer this hypodermic case for discussion .

You find the Ze is high on a TN-S, say 2ohms , the perceived advice is to TT the supply.

Alas after sinking 50 rods the Ra only comes down to 14ohms , making the cable sheath a better option .

DNO show their usual disinterest so what to do , fit RCDs, connect to the rods and call it TT or fit RCDs , leave it on the cable sheath and call it ........erm....... ?????

 
where is this rule for max Ze anyway?

isnt it just that the calcs are BASED on figures of 0.35 TNCS and 0.8 TNS and not an actual reg as to the max Ze allowed?

similar as to TT being recommended at <200 ohm

 
Sorry - forgot to mention. All my Zs readings were well within the 80 per cent values in the OSG. This being the case I didn't think that the Ze would be a problem, but just wanted to make sure with regards to my assessment. Cheers guys

James

 
Sorry - forgot to mention. All my Zs readings were well within the 80 per cent values in the OSG. This being the case I didn't think that the Ze would be a problem, but just wanted to make sure with regards to my assessment. Cheers guysJames
Sorted then you have complied with the recommendations of the BS, the Ze of 0.35ohms is a recommended threshold agreed by the network as far as I was aware and if its higher then it may be an indication that there is something wrong but at 0.06ohms is more likely to be a long run or dirty connection somewhere.

Out of curiosity did you test it using Loop on High or Non trip and did you also test it at the Neutral/Earth at the head to make sure you weren

 
Hi All,

Here is a good one regarding "High Ze"

First off, as Steptoe says, there is NO rule that says Ze has to be anything. Like Steps said, the quoted figures are only a guideline, the DNO can do as they like....

The only thing they HAVE to do, is to make sure that the voltage they supply you with is not less than Minus 6% from nominal.

If you have a high supply impedance then, [due to being miles from a substation] if you moan too much, they are perfectly likely to come along and tell you to TT it all, [to take care of the earthing] and also fit smaller cutout fuses to make sure that you cannot load up the system enough so as to be able to complain about the volt drop.. [Crafty lot eh!]

Anyway,

About a year ago i had a three phase PME supply connected to the shed round the back of my house. About two months ago, having just taken delivery of my new Megger 1730 i thought i would have a play with it.

I checked Ze on each phase and discovered that L1 and L3 were both about 0.3 but that L2 was more like 0.44

I did not know what to do. I wondered if the DNO would even care....

My main concern was nothing to do with earthing, but that as i loaded up the system, that i would have more volt drop on one phase than the others, and that the resulting unbalance could damage my equipment.

What made things even worse, was that when i checked in the house, [that is also on L2] i got a figure of about 0.28

0.28 in the house. 0.44 in the shed....It was obvious that there was something wrong with the new service cable......

Anyway, this morning, i was driving up the road when i noticed that the DNO were digging large holes just around the corner from me. I went home and took some more readings, saved them and printed them out.

I got

House; 0.23 [L2]

Shed

L1 0.29

L2 0.51 !!!!!!

L3 0.23

I went to see the DNO chaps, and showed them my figures and asked what should i do, and added that i did not think that the DNO would be too happy to have to dig the road up again...

They said; "might just be loose terminals in the cutout" so i said "Think it might be?? Shall i go and take it to bits and check?"

They said, "give us five minutes to drink our tea and we will come round and have a look!!!!"

Around they came, and guess what!! the screws in the cut out were UNBELIEVABLY slack. I mean to say, they all did up about 4 turns!!!!!

They explained that they are instructed to do them up using this "T" handled "flexy" allen screwdriver thingy that flexes when they get to the right torque. [Far too slack] but that "I just do them up!!!"

So all screws tightened and my "New" readings are;

L1 0.28

L2 0.29

L3 0.25

Well pleased!!!!!

So if you find high Ze, even though you are not meant to, you could always check the screws in the cutout, especially if it is a newish supply!!!!!

john..

 
App87,

You should never open up a cut out mate, there are just so many things that could go wrong and cause such a problem.

Please remember the available energy at that point!!!

 
Hi Paul,

You are of course completely right....25KA would be a bit of a flash..

Funnily enough, i asked the DNO chap today what sizes the upstream fuses were, and he said "about 400A, but half the time they will not blow anyway, as the loop impedance is too high!!!!"

Still, this will make you laugh..

The other day i went to someones house, [a single girl]. Whilst i was there, i spotted that they had been messing about with their electrics!!!!

If you can imagine, their cutout [looped from next door, but in pyro??] and a large switchfuse had been mounted on a small internal wall at 90 degrees to the party wall of their house with the tails leading off through what appeared to be 1" pipe with a 90 degree bend in it, [all buried in the wall] off about 8 feet to the CU on the adjacent party wall.

Anyway, they had demolished the small wall and gone to relocate the cutout etc on the main wall. To do this they had to bend it all through 90 degrees.....

They had done this by sawing part way though the 1" pipe and bending it to and fro till it snapped off withe the tails still inside and the supply on!!!!!

Worse, they discovered that the pyro was rather stiff, so they tried to saw through it with a junior hacksaw, but gave up when they were only halfway through the copper sheathing and resorted to banging it around 90 degrees with a hammer!!!!!!

You could not make it up!!!!

I have seen looped supplies before, but not in pyro..If this usual???

john...

 
Just to come back to the OP original point. I had a Ze of 346 ohms the other day. Called the DNO, they attnded confirmed the reading and in the middle of the night came back and did something in the road. Next day Ze is 0.14 ohms

 
Worse, they discovered that the pyro was rather stiff, so they tried to saw through it with a junior hacksaw, but gave up when they were only halfway through the copper sheathing and resorted to banging it around 90 degrees with a hammer!!!!!!

You could not make it up!!!!
I hope you told them how close they came to bad day explode

I wonder what the DNO will make of it next time they have reason to visit?

Criminal damage charge perhaps?

 
Hi ProDave,

Yes, i did point out that trying to saw through the pyro might have been a little unwise [as would hammering it for that matter!!] and that they would have been lucky to be alive..... and if they were, that they would have had very serious burns....

Just to make matters worse, they had a friend with them. Now, the girl did not understand that this was not "merely" a copper tube, and so i explained that it was in fact, a type of cable and that you had to strip it with a special tool that cut the copper casing off in a spiral and that there were bare conductors inside contained within "chalky" stuff as i put it.

With that, the friend chimes in with "Pyro!!" I said yes, how do you know about pyro??? to which the girl says "he is an electrician!!"

As it is, with all the yanking around, the pyro is now loose where it enters the cutout. Anyone any idea how it is made off in there?? I guess that it will not be long and there is still a fair chance that there be a rather large flash and bang...

john...

 
Hi Martinxxxxxx,

Glad they sorted it for you.. Any idea what the cause was??

john..

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:41 ----------

Hi Zeespark,

Yes, you can apparently...Rather not put it to the test though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

john...

 
I think they ought to call the DNO and report a "dangerous supply"

But quite what the DNO will make of the partly sawn, hammered pyro I don't know.

They could try "i've just moved in and it was like that honest guv"

P.S a picture in the black museum forum would be good.

 
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