Is this possibly caused by poor earthing?

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 19, 2024

shadowpartner said:
Hey everyone, so I was able to get another EICR done which I'll attach in this post (all sensitive info has been removed).

The electrician who did this second EICR recommended the following remedial work:

Supply and install new consumer unit with RCBO protection for all circuits

Supply and install 4x batton holders in basement

Supply and install plastic light fitting for garden

Supply and install plastic light fitting for kitchen

Supply and install plastic light fitting for hallway

Supply and install 3x single sockets in lounge

Supply and install 1x double socket in lounge

Supply and install 4x single sockets on first floor

Supply and install new bulkhead on landing

Supply and install new light fitting above sink in bedroom

Supply and install plastic light fitting in bedroom to replace metal fan light

Supply and install 2x battery powered smoke alarms for hallway and landing

Supply and install heat alarm in Kitchen

Install main earth directly from service head to consumer unit

Possible fault finding of live-earth fault on downstairs lights circuit

They quoted me £1246.50 to do the above work - does this seem reasonable?

I'm also still wondering how bad are the readings that he has taken down specifically to do with the earthing as the numbers don't mean an awful lot to me.

Again any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

That page 6 with the test results seems to have numbers and results not fitting into the correct boxes....?
unless something strange has happened on the uploading of your page images, and yours looks all correct?

Either way...
I can't quite figure out how he has got metric cable sizes plus CPC sizes for lighting circuits that have been noted has having no CPC?
Also any insulation resistance reading on the lighting circuit should be n/a IMHO rather than >200...
(however these maybe just limitations of the software not able to cope with imperial cable sizes and/or circuits with no CPC?)

BUT.. going right back to your original question..
It would appear that your electrical installation does have some significant earth related issues..
which your second electrician has made a reasonable effort at identifying..
and the fuse box is very outdated... So some significant remedial work is needed..

As for costs.. your profile suggest you are in London..
So I would guess your quote is quite reasonable if that includes materials & labour & Vat (if relevant)?

But I am in the Midlands.. so possibly it may be on the cheap side?

binky · Nov 19, 2024

Fleeting said:
They are not Class II.

They certainly aren't class 1 otherwise they would have an earth terminal

Fleeting · Nov 19, 2024

binky said:
They certainly aren't class 1 otherwise they would have an earth terminal

That doesn't make them Class II.
Doesn't change the fact you can't use Class II as a means of protection in a dwelling and just because Class II parts may have been employed the normal rules for ADS apply.

binky · Nov 20, 2024

Fleeting said:
That doesn't make them Class II.
Doesn't change the fact you can't use Class II as a means of protection in a dwelling and just because Class II parts may have been employed the normal rules for ADS apply.

I'm pretty sure pendants have class 2 stickers on these days, I'll have a look in my garage a bit later, and if you have a read of IET inspection and test guidelines, it talks about replacing metallic fittings with class 2, ie plastic, where the owner of a property refuses rewiring of circuits without a cpc. However, I would agree with your point about ADS, which can only really be achieved with a cpc, but I would say that's more to do with cabling than accessories.

Out of interest have you ever come across reinforced insulation?

Fleeting · Nov 20, 2024

A lot of power tools are deemed to have reinforced insulation but you are not likely to know the difference between double and reinforced as they use the same symbol of the two squares.

binky · Nov 20, 2024

As I was saying. I suspect light switches and sockets aren't given the same double insulated rating as it would be dependent on the back box, and therefore the potential for the cover screws to be live under fault conditions unless they have the screw caps

Fleeting · Nov 20, 2024

There is no way that is double insulated.

UNG · Nov 20, 2024

With this problem there is the customer complaint "that metal switch / light fitting has been there for many years and it hasn't killed anyone up to now so why might it kill someone now"
The big issue here is does a label

at the consumer unit make it safe for continued use and properly address the underlying problem in the long term

Fleeting · Nov 20, 2024

Of course it doesn't and BS7671 does not recognise this notice so short term or long term it holds no water.

mort2376 · Nov 20, 2024

The price seems fair for the work, but IMHO its more of a work around rather than a fix.

If there is no cpc on the lights then I would be getting it rewired which also means they can install fully interlinked smoke alarms to provide a more reliable system.

Whilst the other readings seem ok if the property has not been rewired before then I would say now is the time and bite the bullet and get it all done. That way more sockets and sockets in more convenient places can be added.

7029 Dave · Nov 20, 2024

Fleeting said:
That doesn't make them Class II.
Doesn't change the fact you can't use Class II as a means of protection in a dwelling and just because Class II parts may have been employed the normal rules for ADS apply.

My partners mums house is pre 1966 and the lighting circuits have no cpcs. I have advised to have the circuits rewired and upgrade the CU.
The mother is 92 years of age rewiring is just not an option. 3 class1 fittings have been installed over the years. I have changed 2 fittings over to class2 in my mind it better than it was.

binky · Nov 20, 2024

UNG said:
With this problem there is the customer complaint "that metal switch / light fitting has been there for many years and it hasn't killed anyone up to now so why might it kill someone now"
The big issue here is does a label View attachment 17270at the consumer unit make it safe for continued use and properly address the underlying problem in the long term

the old recommendations was RCD protect the circuit, replace metal with plastic fittings and fit said label. However, I now see the recommendations are not to reconnect the circuit at all.

mainline · Nov 20, 2024

There is also :
6. It should be noted that the protective
measure double or reinforced insulation is only
applicable to electrical installations or circuits
therein that are under effective supervision
in normal use to ensure that no change is
made that would impair the effectiveness of
the protective measure (regulation 412.1.2).
Domestic and similar premises falling within the
scope of this Guide cannot be considered to be
under effective supervision.

Fleeting · Nov 20, 2024

mainline said:
There is also :
6. It should be noted that the protective
measure double or reinforced insulation is only
applicable to electrical installations or circuits
therein that are under effective supervision
in normal use to ensure that no change is
made that would impair the effectiveness of
the protective measure (regulation 412.1.2).
Domestic and similar premises falling within the
scope of this Guide cannot be considered to be
under effective supervision.

Which is what I said in #31 followed by sarcastic remarks from you.

mainline · Nov 20, 2024

Fleeting said:
Which is what I said in #31 followed by sarcastic remarks from you.

The remark was to the statement "Class II protection should not be used in a dwelling", I was being a bit Facetious.

Fleeting · Nov 20, 2024

mainline said:
The remark was to the statement "Class II protection should not be used in a dwelling", I was being a bit Facetious.

Yes the statement you have essentially made in #53.

mainline · Nov 20, 2024

Fleeting said:
Yes the statement you have essentially made in #53.

That was in relation to #40

Is this possibly caused by poor earthing?

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Is this possibly caused by poor earthing?

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