Looking for "Hens Teeth" and/or "Unicorn Pooh"???

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 22, 2024

A customer last week has a halogen 75W PAR20 GU10 that has lamp failed..
One of two lamps each individually controlled off a double gang dimmer...

So I am looking to source LED dimmable PAR20, (2.5 inch diameter), GU10 lamps.....

But from initial "googles" it looks like they could be rare items?

Any suggestions for suitable supplier(s) from the combined wisdom base of the forumbulator??

Cheers gents/ladies.

poni · Nov 22, 2024

not that hard to find

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 23, 2024

poni said:
not that hard to find

But that is a screw thread...
NOT GU10?????

(Every Tom D1ck and Harry has ES PAR20 LEDs!!)

SJD · Nov 23, 2024

Perhaps Lampwise: https://www.lampwise.co.uk/75w-240v-63mm-gu10-halogen-spot-lamp.html

They list it as an aluminium coated reflector, but then also describe it as dichroic, so not sure which type it actually is.

ProDave · Nov 23, 2024

What is the original lamp doing?

A lot of those are used as a "heat lamp" to keep something warm, if so swapping for an LED might not give the result you want.

poni · Nov 23, 2024

oppps sorry

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
But that is a screw thread...
NOT GU10?????

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 23, 2024

SJD said:
Perhaps Lampwise: https://www.lampwise.co.uk/75w-240v-63mm-gu10-halogen-spot-lamp.html

They list it as an aluminium coated reflector, but then also describe it as dichroic, so not sure which type it actually is.

I have seen various Halogen options still available... (but expensive to buy and run).
I just assumed there would be a reasonable choice of LED equivalents by now?
Clearly not though!!

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 23, 2024

ProDave said:
What is the original lamp doing?

A lot of those are used as a "heat lamp" to keep something warm, if so swapping for an LED might not give the result you want.

Part of a set of kitchen ceiling lights, supplied by the "kitchen fitters" approx 15 or 20 years ago..

Kitchen is in two sections.. Each section has five recessed downlights in a typical 'dice No'5 layout'..

The two centre lamps are the PAR20 75watt halogens switched from a two-gang dimmer..

Then the two groups of four lamps around then are standard 50mm GU10's off standard two-gang switch.

The bog standard 50mm GU10's have been swapped out for LEDs..

Now the one PAR20 has actually failed..
So was looking for an LED replacement, that would offer some actually light over the kitchen table rather than heat!
Plus to complicate things, they need to be dimmable!!

The original arrangement had 8x50watt & 2x75watt Halogens (550watts of 'kitchen lights'!!)
I was hoping to get the whole lot down to around 50w to 70watts max?

ProDave · Nov 23, 2024

Well for the time being a normal 50mm GU10 would go in but might look a bit lost in the larger fitting.

Consider changing the fitting. You can get fittings that take standard size GU10's that are made to fit an over size hole.

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 23, 2024

After further searching I have found some LED PAR20, GU10 base lamps on Amazon & another on-line lamp supplier...
But none are dimmable..!!

So I am now considering just getting another 75watt, Halogen Par20, as they are still available..
and leaving the "LED" issue as a problem for another day.

It's becoming too much hassle, for what should have been a simple faulty lamp replacement.
plus I'd need to convert the dimmer switches as well!

ProDave · Nov 23, 2024

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
So I am now considering just getting another 75watt, Halogen Par20, as they are still available..
and leaving the "LED" issue as a problem for another day.

Buy at least 3 while they are available, a spare for each after you have replaced the dud one. Kicking the can down the road.

UNG · Nov 23, 2024

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
After further searching I have found some LED PAR20, GU10 base lamps on Amazon & another on-line lamp supplier...
But none are dimmable..!!

That is exactly what I found searching a number of the LED lamp suppliers there also seemed to be a lot of eye watering prices on the non dimmable ones as well

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 23, 2024

UNG said:
seemed to be a lot of eye watering prices

There are indeed many eye watering prices for PAR20 lamps!!!

I think my customer would have a heart attack or accuse me of ripping them off big time if I try to supply some of the lamps I found!!

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 23, 2024

Just as a further side note straw-poll....

How many others on the forumbulator would agree that PAR 20 lamps are not a very common light choice, especially within a domestic installation?

I've been self employed since Feb 1999, and this customer is the only one I know with PAR20 GU10 lamps!!

Also I've been doing various jobs for this customer since 2001.. Total invoice costs currently exceed £12,300+ over the years..

So I don't want to stitch-them-up or short-change-them, as they are good customers who no longer ask for a quote or price up front.. They just text or phone me saying; "When can you come to sort out "A", "B" and "C" that are no longer working?"

So in this case sticking with Halogen seems to be the best solution...
As swapping the light fittings could mean they no longer match the other eight standard 50mm (PAR16) GU10's in the rest of the kitchen!!!

AND... (side note#2)
Does everyone else also find that 99.999% of customers still only ever talk about lights as by their Watts rating?
With absolutely ZERO understanding of; Lumens, Kelvins, (Cool / Warm / Daylight), Beam angles, Dimmable-Non Dimmable ?

lighting used to be so much easier years ago!!

UNG · Nov 24, 2024

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
Just as a further side note straw-poll....

How many others on the forumbulator would agree that PAR 20 lamps are not a very common light choice, especially within a domestic installation?

I've been self employed since Feb 1999, and this customer is the only one I know with PAR20 GU10 lamps!!

When you look at lighting evolution the PAR lamp was generally an ES cap, a PAR lamp with a GU10 cap is a variation I came across a good many years ago as from what I remember manufacturers were creating many different display lighting options with the newer MR16 and GU10 lampholders
Looking at the pricing and limited LED options it would suggest there is a very limited market for these lamps now but it is likely the market was never that big given the many lamp type and variants that were avavailable 30 - 40 years ago

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
So in this case sticking with Halogen seems to be the best solution...
As swapping the light fittings could mean they no longer match the other eight standard 50mm (PAR16) GU10's in the rest of the kitchen!!!

This is always an issue especially when trying to find an alternative lamp for an older fitting and the time spent trying to locate something is difficult to charge for

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
AND... (side note#2)
Does everyone else also find that 99.999% of customers still only ever talk about lights as by their Watts rating?
With absolutely ZERO understanding of; Lumens, Kelvins, (Cool / Warm / Daylight), Beam angles, Dimmable-Non Dimmable ?

Why is it with LED lighting no manfacturers seem to have a consistant and relatable cool / warm / daylight temperature levels they all differ some by a good margin although the development of LED has moved at great pace in recent years and it is difficult to keep up with the latest chip types with ever increasing outputs for less watts

SPECIAL LOCATION said:
lighting used to be so much easier years ago!!

Didn't it just, the transition from incandesant and fluorescent to LED when replacing fittings is never as clear cut as it may seem when trying to match existing lighting levels

binky · Nov 24, 2024

PAR20 is commercial in my book, I think I've encountered it maybe once or twice in domestic premises. Fortunately ceilings were being I reboarded and skimmed, so they were replaced with modern downlighters.

UNG · Nov 24, 2024

binky said:
PAR20 is commercial in my book, I think I've encountered it maybe once or twice in domestic premises. Fortunately ceilings were being I reboarded and skimmed, so they were replaced with modern downlighters.

I think it is difficult to definitively segregate domestic and commercial lighting it could be argued that today's downlights have their origins in the commercial display lighting section of the lighting catalogues
These days it seems that anything goes when it comes to design and customer expectations how often do you see or hear of a job where a customer wants that industrial feel with surface conduit and the lighting with the enamelled "Coolie" lamp shades
As with a lot of fittings over the last 40ish years the choice of lamp has generally been driven by the designer of the fitting trying to be stylish and occasionally functional no matter how obscure and difficult to source the lamp may be in the future

SPECIAL LOCATION · Nov 24, 2024

I would agree they are more commonly used for feature display type lighting... rather than trying to be used as standard domestic room lighting..

SPECIAL LOCATION · Dec 2, 2024

I just thought I would update this..

Today I received 2x 75watt, halogen, Par20, GU10, lamps, from a company somewhere in Hertford... (approx £20 including VAT & postage).

Popping back Wednesday afternoon to conclude another "Non-LED" lighting fault, happy customer!!!

If they can last another 15ish years, like the current lamps.. Then it wont be my problem!!

Looking for "Hens Teeth" and/or "Unicorn Pooh"???

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