17th

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Lee Sparks

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hi guys,

Just wanted to clear something up.

Do you need the 17th edition quilification before your allowed to do the 2391?

Lee.

 
Yes it would be one of the minimum requirements to do most electrical courses involving anything more in depth.

 
Thanks for info,

Ive just finished my City & guilds 2330 lvl 3, so looking to do 17th,2391 & pat next.

Was wondering what order etc, so i can plan ahead.

CHeers.

 
No you do not need it, but it would be a great advantage if you did or have a good understanding of it,

the 17th exam is multi choice on compter, if you get a few past papers and know your way around BRB, I would advise not to do course - do exam only and spend the money elsewhere on your training i.e. 2391

 
What is wrong with this is that the 17th ed. is a course not just an exam.

The C&G specify a certain number of contact hours training before are allowed to sit the exam.

Trouble is many training providers and exam centres ignore this.

Not sure what the C&G official take is on that these days, but that is the way it is supposed, to work.

 
Ok if you have just done and passed the 2330 level 3 you only need to take the upgrade exam not the full one.

Dont worry about it, if you can read an index to a book you pass.

 
I agree, i did mine this year, to be honest after the PAT testing exam its the simplest exam i have done.

However, passing the exam does not mean you know the book, as we have all seen on here its open to interpertation.

I found the best revision for it was here, when we get a "debate" going, grab the BRB look up the regs everyone is talking about and make your own mind up.

At the end of the day you will be the one that has to justify your choice so make sure you did it with all relevant facts at hand

 
Sidewinder - there is a course - it comprises of the lecturer explaining the layout, differing ways of looking up and throwing lots of exam type Qs at you - nothing you cant do alone. It is not a course to check any knowledge as such niether does it offer any interpretation. I didn't consider it an exam, just a test to see if you can find the answers - all it seems to do is cover everyone elses backside - quite correctly may i add- i think all sparks shoud know how to research and come to a reasoned conclusion not blindly following the BRB, it is after all only one source of many. You can see by the discussions here, there are often better and safer way to achieve the same result, just because something hasnt been tried before doesnt make it illegal or unsafe.

 
I've been on a waiting list since Autumn 2008 to sit the 17th edition course !. There is only one college on my island and it seems demand is very high. (however I did the 2391 back in the year 2000)

 
SteveT,

I understand the course concept, I "HAD" to do my 16th as a course, and I needed to do the 17th very soon after it came out for various reasons so I sat the very 1st 17th exam in the area, however, to do that I had to sit "the course"!

My point is somewhat in line with yours, I agree that you can self study.

However, the idea of the qualification issued by C&G is that it is a course followed by an exam with a successful result.

What the official line from C&G would be wrt exam only offerings would be interesting as to only sit the exam, you have not undertaken the qualification.

Would a centre offer 2391-01 or 02 as an assessment only option?

CGLI stipulate a certain number of contact hours prior to you being allowed to sit the exam "officially".

So the exam only is just a way of bending the rules.

Would CGLI accept this, if they knew, I don't know TBH.

 
Yeah all poiints noted, but I think even C&G would accept that this is not a course as 'the man on the Clapham Omnibus' would envisage one to be!

The exam is a test to see if you can look up facts and find answers. There is no requirement for understanding or interpretation in the exam, the only conclusion is that as a course it is a waste of money. Either you know how to look up or you don't.

I don't believe the establishments offering the exam only would take the risk of losing their C&G accreditation, niether do I believe that C&G would not look into this if there was a problem of offering exam only, after all it is common knowledge that you can do this exam only. I don't believe there exists any establishment who would allow you to sit the 2391 only, although surely you should be allowed to if you feel capable.

As ageneralisation you can sit many 'exams only' if you shop around. if you have the knowledge surely it is up to the individual.

I addition, why do many courses award you exemptions if you have previous relevant quals - they don't ask did you do a course, just the qual is necessary.

This is not meant to be 'the' answer, just food for thought.

 
I've been on a waiting list since Autumn 2008 to sit the 17th edition course !. There is only one college on my island and it seems demand is very high. (however I did the 2391 back in the year 2000)
Rev, did you do your 2391 on the rock?

BTW, Im hating you right now, you LUCKY LUCKY sod.

:_| :_| :_|

 
'the man on the Clapham Omnibus'
How many will this be missed by!

OK Steve, all very good points, and as you say all noted.

Another food for thought.

IF they allow this to start where does it end, just look at the state of the industry already caused by dumbing down.

Where next, I think that such course requirements as contact hours must be enforced along with CPD, I'm not sure if you joined or are still in the "Law Society", however as I understand it you would have to do CPD, and would have to hold certain qualifications and experience thus competence to achieve this recognition?

I have to undertake CPD to maintain my IET & IOSH status.

Exemptions are based on the qual, yes again we agree, however, this relies on the qual having been studied and passed in accordance with the requirements of the course.

You could sit 2391-02 (2400) theory exam with the regs book and GN3 there on your desk if the examination centre allowed it, would that be OK?

Who would know bar those in the room?

None of the candidates are gonna blab are they! The tutors ain't gonna say owt as their pass rates would be up, the centre aint gonna say owt as they would loose their recognition and a whole lot more. The only risk is if an external assessor comes in. The chances of that are probably less than a HMRC investigation.

However, IMHO NO it would not be OK, as that is outside the "spec" of the C&G course.

Thing is once you pass you would use these docs rather than do it from memory as you may make a mistake.

You would have the qualification even though you cheated to get it as it were.

Again food for thought / discuss?...

 
Rev, did you do your 2391 on the rock?BTW, Im hating you right now, you LUCKY LUCKY sod.

:_| :_| :_|
No I did my 2391 in Bangor, North Wales. I've only lived on the IOM since 2006. Right now I'm on Anglesey but will be back 'on the rock' on Thursday for the end of race week :)

 
Thanks for the feedback all, its gave me a lot to think about.

Now its just a case of finding out the enrollment dates.

Now im going to bed, got my 303 practical tomorrow!

Lee. :good night:

 
We do agree on many points - I think as a generalisation one should do a course then an exam but maintain that the 17th is not a skills based course by any stretch of the imagination.

Ther C&G are not the arbiters of whether you have to take a course or not although they mayset a rule that says theywillnot let you take their exam withouta course. The Governmet sets the national level i.e level 3 and validates the exam, it is the final result in the exam that counts. This is then contracted out to various education providers to design a course to achieve this. iIf you can achieve this level without a course, taking a random exam (Random Q's from syllabus, not any old exam) then is not the result the same.

I am going to phone the lovely lady from C&G and ask the Q directly and get their take on this (excuse the pun!!) and willl report back post-haste

 
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