1st fix, 2nd fix and some guidence needed please :)

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I will be speaking with him over the course of the next few days to get a clearer idea of what needs to be done..

Thats what I said you need to do Nick! :Salute

There is no way anyone here on the forum can know precisely what your guy wants....

1st & 2nd fix are not pre-defined procedures in the wiring regs....

1st fix is just basically getting all of the essential wiring done before the plasterers can come and cover the walls and ceiling ....

2nd fix is everything that wasn't done on 1st fix.

As said previously 1st fix will generally include accessory back boxes...

but if there is no plaster board to cut a dry lining box into then it may be just cables left hanging down....

or..

wall lights may be left to finalise the actual height dependent upon the type of light fitting....

I have had customers who know they wanted wall lights but hadn't decided if the lights points up or down....

which can affect the best height positition....

GuinnessGuinness

 

[maselec]

hey guys,I might cop some flack over this but I put the word out via email asking for more experience in the field and after much effort i got a response. A guy has asked me to do second fix of a new build in a block of apartmets pretty much by myself. I dont want to look bad or stuff up. I want to be prepared and do a decent job.

Anyways ill cut to the chase.

I havnt been in the game all that long and would like to know what does 2nd fix actually mean? From what i gather its termination of cables and such. Is there anything else involved? Like testing and the issue of certificates?

Im quite nervous and i dont want to make anyone look bad, including myself.

What should i be prepared for exactly?

Im hoping someone can look over the fact that im no genius and havnt been in the game that long.

I hope someone can help me out...

thanks in advance.

Nick

I suspect most competent sparks did the same as me and spluttered when they read your opening post. Please do not give the line about how 'everyone has to start somewhere' or you are 'asking for advice, isn't that what the forum is for??'

Giving advice to a student is one thing but you are clearly looking for guidance and reassurance. This is relatively simple stuff, you are cleary not competent to do this work and your reaction to other forum members input suggests that you know this. This isn't case of stepping up to the plate or he who dares wins, you learn and become comfortable before doing things for yourself. I suspect you are being used as cheap labour or worse. At your level of competence you should have a spark over your shoulder, yes there aren't a lot of opportunities but that is no excuse to get in over your head.

 

[Theorysparky]

I smell a rat with the guy who has asked you to do the work,,,,,,,,,

money ??????? last guy walked because he didnt get paid ????

be careful mate

 

[Technician]

Echoing above; doing a 2nd fix after a 1st that you have not

done means taking responsibility for another.

 

[Doc Hudson]

hey guys,I might cop some flack over this but I put the word out via email asking for more experience in the field and after much effort i got a response. A guy has asked me to do second fix of a new build in a block of apartmets pretty much by myself. I dont want to look bad or stuff up. I want to be prepared and do a decent job.

Anyways ill cut to the chase.

I havnt been in the game all that long and would like to know what does 2nd fix actually mean? From what i gather its termination of cables and such. Is there anything else involved? Like testing and the issue of certificates?

Im quite nervous and i dont want to make anyone look bad, including myself.

What should i be prepared for exactly?

Im hoping someone can look over the fact that im no genius and havnt been in the game that long.

I hope someone can help me out...

thanks in advance.

Nick

yeh ive got some electrical experience on the domestic side of things. Im going to college to do the domestic installers course next month. ive also done my 17th edition and just done the part p course not to long ago.

yea its all good. i can do the work.. but what's involved with doing a second fix? Will I have to do testing and filling out certificates? I can imagine that he would be doing the certs while i just finish off the cables and sockets etc?

sorry i shouldnt of asked. thanks for the help. I guess

Hello Nick, If a see a post with comments like 'sorry I shouldnt of asked' I will often have read though a thread to see if I can put the comment into context and check if any anyone is being particularly unhelpful or abusive etc. Having read through the thread I actually think that on the whole you have been given some very good answers, with some very sound advice, even the ones you don't appear to appreciate. May I just explain a little about a problem any forum has. People may post questions on a forum that are a combination of; 'rather too vague to answer accurately', 'so blatantly obvious they should not have been asked if a person is as competent as they claim', 'to complex to explain to someone who is outside of their experience level', 'to narrow minded and missing important legal or safety aspects of a task' or 'just very poor in design, procedure, method or intention'. Or a combination of all of the above.

If a forum is asked such a question, often the person asking has in their own mind what they think the answer should be and if the answers don't come confirming what they hoped to hear they may get resentful to the members posting the replies or the forum as a whole. Your own initial comments imply you still require some significant guidance as you lack confidence in some areas.

Im quite nervous and i dont want to make anyone look bad, including myself. What should i be prepared for exactly? Im hoping someone can look over the fact that im no genius and havnt been in the game that long. I hope someone can help me out...

I think you would be wise to re read all of the replies and take on board the common points raised by various members. The job may indeed be a simple straight forward second fix, but there could also be some possible pitfalls which our members are trying to help you get streetwise to. If members on here consider some of your comments to indicate you are out of your depth, it is quite possible that the person you would be working for, or other trades while you are working on site may also get this impression. As a general rule a project manager does not bring in a total stranger to 2nd' fix a job unsupervised. There have been numerous cases of builder & tradesman disagreements and someone walks off a job leaving a mess for someone else to tidy up. If you have made clear on your initial e-mail the points about your experience that you have posted on the forum then the person employing you will understand what level you are at and know what tasks to delegate to you. But if you have implied a greater level of experience then asking questions on a forum will not enable you to pretend experience you dont have to others on a site. If other trades are working on the site you will generally cop far worse flack as most other trades always moan at the sparkie for not having power on where they want it.

You have done the right thing making an effort to get some hands on experience, but please also do not dismiss the wisdom knowledge and experience that I can see comes though most of the answers here. (some other answers are typical of tongue in cheek jibes any electrician gets on site.)

Doc H.

 

[Nick182]

what should i do then? Back off and give up the job? I would love to have a spark over my shoulder. Thats why i sent out emails asking for experience. I want to get out there and get my hands dirty and i feel this is the only way how i guess.

I want to become an Electrician. A Competent Electrician. Where else do i start that doesnt involve giving over thousands of pounds.

Do you guys think this guy is taking me for a ride or? What should I do?

how did you guys start off?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:19 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:55 ----------

Hello Nick, If a see a post with comments like 'sorry I shouldnt of asked' I will often have read though a thread to see if I can put the comment into context and check if any anyone is being particularly unhelpful or abusive etc. Having read through the thread I actually think that on the whole you have been given some very good answers, with some very sound advice, even the ones you don't appear to appreciate. May I just explain a little about a problem any forum has. People may post questions on a forum that are a combination of; 'rather too vague to answer accurately', 'so blatantly obvious they should not have been asked if a person is as competent as they claim', 'to complex to explain to someone who is outside of their experience level', 'to narrow minded and missing important legal or safety aspects of a task' or 'just very poor in design, procedure, method or intention'. Or a combination of all of the above.If a forum is asked such a question, often the person asking has in their own mind what they think the answer should be and if the answers don't come confirming what they hoped to hear they may get resentful to the members posting the replies or the forum as a whole. Your own initial comments imply you still require some significant guidance as you lack confidence in some areas.

I think you would be wise to re read all of the replies and take on board the common points raised by various members. The job may indeed be a simple straight forward second fix, but there could also be some possible pitfalls which our members are trying to help you get streetwise to. If members on here consider some of your comments to indicate you are out of your depth, it is quite possible that the person you would be working for, or other trades while you are working on site may also get this impression. As a general rule a project manager does not bring in a total stranger to 2nd' fix a job unsupervised. There have been numerous cases of builder & tradesman disagreements and someone walks off a job leaving a mess for someone else to tidy up. If you have made clear on your initial e-mail the points about your experience that you have posted on the forum then the person employing you will understand what level you are at and know what tasks to delegate to you. But if you have implied a greater level of experience than asking questions on a forum will not enable you to pretend experience you dont have to others on a site. If other trades are working on the site you will generally cop far worse flack as most other trades always moan at the sparkie for not having power on where they want it.

You have done the right thing making an effort to get some hands on experience, but please also do not dismiss the wisdom knowledge and experience that I can see comes though most of the answers here. (some other answers are typical of tongue in cheek jibes any electrician gets on site.)

Doc H.

thanks.. and i do value each and everyones input. I really do appreciate it. I need to hear the bad as well as the good.. I perhaps could of said it more clearly and stated it differently in regards to "what does 2nd fix actually mean" I know what it means but i didnt put it forward the way i should of.

I basically wanted to know if there was anything else that i should of been aware of in regards to a second fix as iv never been on site before. Im actually glad i posted it because its made me more aware of the guy i could potentially be working for.. In terms of Why he wants me to finish the second fix and not him..

I am quite cautious now but im still confident that i can do the job.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:20 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:19 ----------

I smell a rat with the guy who has asked you to do the work,,,,,,,,,money ??????? last guy walked because he didnt get paid ????

be careful mate

thanks mate.. i will indeed cheers

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:20 ----------

I probably could of re read what i wrote before posting.. I basically wanted to find out if there was anything else involved with a second fix as apposed to what is a second fix.

*facepalm*

trying to get the experience is hard. After college they just shoved us out the door... then what? I realise how dumb i sounded by asking what is a second fix but i wanted to get straight to the point and find out if there was anything else involved..

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:31 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:24 ----------

thanks mate.. i probably should of explained myself a lot better. I just wanted to know if there was anything else that i should of been made aware of ..ie cheap labour or worse.

in years to come ill look back at this post and say to myself.. OMFG i wrote that? LOL dont worry no one will be able to take the p***** out of myelf more than me for this post.

thanks for the heads up. I probably am in over my head. Should I just call him back and say I cant do it? what do you think?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:31 ----------

Thanks guys... all of the input is as good as gold. I cant thank you all enough

cheers

 

[Doc Hudson]

Is this person an electrician, (preferable the person who did or organised 1st fix). Or is he a builder? If he is a builder then you do need to tread cautiously. We have numerous members who have personal experience of been taken for a ride by unscrupulous builders and/or kitchen, bathroom & conservatory fitters. Whoever they are you are best being honest and upfront with them at the beginning about your genuine level of experience. If you try to hide it the truth will come out as soon as you encounter something a little non-standard on site. e.g. maybe they have 1st fixed the light switching in a less common method. If other trades are working on site you need to be clear on your Health & Safety responsibilities as well. 2nd fix should not normally be to manual cutting & drilling but you still need to consider what happens if you damage part of the site? Do you have any insurance cover or what liabilities is he expecting from you. If you go back to him asking the questions to get a clear understanding of where your responsibility's start and end, how much and what timescale payment is made over. Then you are going in able to make a better judgment. I will also add that competent electricians do have to hand over

 

[johninlondon1]

When I started off just having completed my plastering course I got a large job (

 

[Nick182]

ahh ok.. yes hes an electrician and has done the first fix.. Him and a few other chaps will be on another site while i finish second fix. I too have had a near miss with a couple of builders not too long ago. I smelt a rat straight away.

He is well aware of my level of experience and I wouldnt dare hide the truth of my level of experience to any electrician.. This sort of thing you cant fake. I have liability insurance and i am covered. I will speak to him today and get a clearer picture of when payment will be made aswell as whos responsible for materials etc..

thanks doc your advice is brilliant. i cant thank you enough.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was made at 11:12 ----------

ouch.. sorry to hear that mate atleast you got away before it went completely T*ts up. Its stories like these that people can learn from. Ive been made aware of people out there like that and have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with them first hand aswell. I prefer to get everything in writing if i can first and foremost.

I have never been the one to just jump in head first into any situation without reading the T&C's first. I know it may seem like it with this job but i can assure you that we both know where we stand. We just need to dot the I's and cross the T's before we go ahead with it. And besides I love a good challenge and i feel this is exactly what i need. i take great pride in my work and would never take on anything that i couldnt handle.

i perhaps need to brush up on how I deliver a post to a forum though.. LoL my bad..

 

[a1]

Lol Nick,

We (especially I) love to see photos of before, during and after.

If you do accept this job, can you take before during and after and put them in a new thread, as and when please mate?

 

[sellers]

Before I start I'm on my phone and have only scan read the thread.

It's perfectly normal for a company to daft in extra hands to get a job done. If you are qualified or not is all down to the responsibly of the qualifying supervisor. He will be the one signing the certs. On large jobs every spark doesn't get his signature on the cert, do they? Even though they had a part in it! A supervisor takes overall control of each stage.

What you need to do is find out what you will be doing and wok out if you are competent with that component of the job, and if your not tell this guy and go from there!

Non of us would be here today if we didnt attempt new things, as long as someone can supervise incase it's not done correctly.

 

[Nick182]

Lol Nick,We (especially I) love to see photos of before, during and after.

If you do accept this job, can you take before during and after and put them in a new thread, as and when please mate?

Yes i can do that for you if I have the time It shouldn't be a problem though.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was made at 14:30 ----------

Thank you Much appreciated.

 

[wozz]

the way you asked the question was the problem.

I took a job once I was told I would be doing 'SI' and 'VO' work I had no idea what these terms meant, it didnt mean I didnt know how to do the work. I dont know your skill level but it appears you have realised your mistake in wording. Good luck with it, let them know where you are at skills wise and that you would like supervision, easy peasy.

 

[steptoe]

I keep getting asked if I can WO and RK

seems I dont know how to do it. :C

 

[sprocketflup]

i wish mrs sprocketflup wud do some SU sometimes