2391?

[welshgit]

Hi all,

I was thinking of leaving my 2391 for quite a while as I feel I would be wasting my time and money right now.

A Sparks told me today that there is no point in doing 2391 as it is not needed.

He said that even if a PIR is requested i can still do it and issue my own cert.

Is this correct? If it is I will wait even longer and complete my 2330 instead!?

Pray

Welshgit

 

[Apache]

How far in are you?

 

[welshgit]

I was going to do 2391 first but have now decided against it.

I was just looking to see how important or necesary 2391 was?

With money being tight and now needing to pay for my education, it is important that I plough my credit crunching cash into the correct courses that will benefit me not hinder or cripple me.

What do you think?

 

[Apache]

I'm not the right person to comment. Some one will tho - I'm sure

What qualifications have you got so far?

(I'm asking you questions that might help others help you - if you get my drift)

 

[a1]

I'd echo what Apache said, Mate...

"What qualifications have you got so far?"

 

[binky]

Hi all,I was thinking of leaving my 2391 for quite a while as I feel I would be wasting my time and money right now.

A Sparks told me today that there is no point in doing 2391 as it is not needed.

He said that even if a PIR is requested i can still do it and issue my own cert.

Is this correct? If it is I will wait even longer and complete my 2330 instead!?

Pray

Welshgit

That is correct - to perform any type of electrical work you need only be competent It is only the scheme providers who tend to insist on quals, but even they will allow people to become registered if they can demonstrate sufficient knowledge and understanding to undertake work competently.

This is why I am only registered as Dom Inst - cos I don't see the need / don't wont to pay for a higher category, and this is all I need to be self-cert for part P

 

[welshgit]

I'm an EAL Domestic Installer.Blushing

My mis-directed youth took me away from what I wish I'd done years ago.

I always feel nervous about admitting this as I was greatly offended by "qualified" electricians on another forum saying I was not good enough to be working for myself. My answer is they have obviously not seen any of my excellent work and haven't spoken to my very happy customers.

Sorry if this offends anyone but it's the quickest way for me to get to do what I enjoy and be aware that I had to pay the price for my mis-direction.

This is why I need help on deciding which one first 2391 or 2330.

I already feel safer with 2330 for next year (Funds permitting!)

Welshgit

 

[a1]

Are you doing them in Neath College, Mate.

With regards to the other forum. That is one of the reasons I started this place up. The bit*hing can stay on those forums and the good Guys (and Gals) are Welcomed on here.

 

[binky]

I always feel nervous about admitting this as I was greatly offended by "qualified" electricians on another forum saying I was not good enough to be working for myself. My answer is they have obviously not seen any of my excellent work and haven't spoken to my very happy customers.

I had lots of crap like that also, but seeing as I spent most of my working life in industry with high integrity products such as missile defence systems, railway safety systems and sub-sea fibre optics, I always felt more than able to do electrics which are kind of rustic by comparison. I've also seen plenty of crap done by 'professionals' - its rare I find a system (in domestic) I consider done up to a standard, and its my aim to be one of the contractors whose work is respected by other electricians. In fairness to some of the professionals, it isn't as easy as it might seem, and some of my earlier work was a bit basic albeit electrically sound. I still like to observe and emulate those who have 20 years in the business and maintain high standards - you can always learn, but I've also taught some of these guys new tricks myself, learn't from my previous occupations.

There's always knockers out there, ignore the d*cks.

 

[welshgit]

Have not yet signed up for a course but have seen that Swansea College do a 2330 course that I can do 1 day a week for a year.

If work picks up and I can cwtch (hide) some money away I will be able to afford it with a clear conscience.Pray

You're right about the other forum! I complained to the admin there about some disgusting aggresive language about sparks that have taken the same route as myself. Nothing was done!!! X(

I don't mind opinions but i feel you must be careful at not tarring all with the same proverbial brush.

Thanks for the support I need it right now as I was doubting my decision to re train thanks to the narrow minded individuals from the last forum.

Cheers!!!Guiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkGuiness DrinkApplaud SmileyApplaud SmileyGuiness DrinkGuiness Drink

 

[steptoe]

personally I done the 2391, 4 day course about 5 years ago.

served my time in 15th, worked outside UK a lot so when I knew I was coming back had no UK current qualification so done 2391 and had no probs getting work when I moved back and had NO other qualifications.

dunno how easy you would find the 2391 tho without any recent working knowledge of T&I.

 

[laserdavy]

Hi all,I was thinking of leaving my 2391 for quite a while as I feel I would be wasting my time and money right now.

A Sparks told me today that there is no point in doing 2391 as it is not needed.

He said that even if a PIR is requested i can still do it and issue my own cert.

Is this correct? If it is I will wait even longer and complete my 2330 instead!?

Pray

Welshgit

For what its worth my opinion would be to do 2330 level 2 and 3, if you are quite good on electrical knowledge you could skip level 2 and go straight to 3. You then need to do your 17th Edition which in reality is an absolute must.

As for the 2391, well I am considering doing it in the spring of next year, that is just my choice to have better understanding of the requirements within the electrical industry.

If you have not done the 2330 and 17th you would not stand a prayer on the 2391 and I think it is a prerequisit that unless you have done the 17th you cannot do the 2391.

Best way, start at the begining work in the industry with someone who knows what they are doing as they are the best instructors in the world.

Good luck

 

[GreekIslandLover]

Personally, I'd say get the 2330 and the 17th, then get 2391 whilst still in college learning mode.

True, you don't necessarily NEED it, but in the current economic climate, if you are job hunting it might make the difference betwen being offered the job or not. I work for a medium sized company with several depots in the south and south west, and the boss wants 2391 and puts this in ads. Whilst he will interview people without it, it is something that might tip the balance when having two equally qualified and suitable candidates.

Also, if you want to go down the route of getting a JIB card worth having, then they require 2391.

 

[Shakey]

For what its worth my opinion would be to do 2330 level 2 and 3, if you are quite good on electrical knowledge you could skip level 2 and go straight to 3. You then need to do your 17th Edition which in reality is an absolute must.As for the 2391, well I am considering doing it in the spring of next year, that is just my choice to have better understanding of the requirements within the electrical industry.

If you have not done the 2330 and 17th you would not stand a prayer on the 2391 and I think it is a prerequisit that unless you have done the 17th you cannot do the 2391.

Best way, start at the begining work in the industry with someone who knows what they are doing as they are the best instructors in the world.

Good luck

Hi Laserdavy,

surprisingly there are NO prerequisities for sitting the 2391 (from C&G anyway), but most colleges/training providers lay down their own

When people come to me to do 2391, i insist they have T&I experience, and if they werent 17th qualified, they would still have to prove their competent in the use of the regs.

I have only ever taught one guy who wasnt qualified to the current edition of the regs, and that ws because he actually sat the 2382 exam DURING the 2391 course (erm...last week acually!)

In response to the original post, no 2391 is not needed to do PIR's (as mentioned, the requirement is competence) but you are unlikely to get a job involving T&I without it.

The other factor is time, you can get 2391 done in a week, wheras 2330 is a few years.

you pays your money, you takes your choice

 

[laserdavy]

Hi Laserdavy,surprisingly there are NO prerequisities for sitting the 2391 (from C&G anyway), but most colleges/training providers lay down their own

Shakey

That in fact does not surprise me, but I must admit that the colleges I have looked at state in the course data that the 2391 is required, I can see their point as I know that C&G are getting on everyones case about the poor pass rates, so a good degree of selection before hand should improve results.

As at the moment I am part timing in electrical work and intend to go full time self employed I don't in reallity really need it, however I firmly believe that it is a worth while qualification that if you have got the confidence - go for it Applaud Smiley

 

[Carter]

I always feel nervous about admitting this as I was greatly offended by "qualified" electricians on another forum saying I was not good enough to be working for myself.

and

Sorry if this offends anyone but it's the quickest way for me to get to do what I enjoy and be aware that I had to pay the price for my mis-direction.

I won't be giving you any crap about that trust me. If someone has the self discipline required to learn the trade thoroughly then I can only wish them the best. It's when they go for the barest minimum of competence to allow them to mis-represent themselves as 'electricians' when in fact they have no industrial/commercial/machine/site experience beyond yanking in model ccts. in twin 'n skin that my lip starts to curl a little. Don't forget that you will be in effect certifying that an installation, its components, its intended use, any additions etc. etc. ad infinitum render it safe to remain in service. If something goes wrong and a fatality results then (depending on the circumstances) your signature may well place a liability on you to PROVE that you were actually competent to write that report. Insurance loss adjusters will also not miss the chance to shred your credibility before a court.

My answer is they have obviously not seen any of my excellent work and haven't spoken to my very happy customers.

...and neither will the jury have if it gets to crown which in the case of a death caused by negligence it will. The point of the 2391 is that it is internationaly acknowledged as a means of establishing competence and as such is a whole lot easier to present to a court and a darn sight more effectively credible than a hastily assembled portfolio of 'happy punter' testimonials.

I already feel safer with 2330 for next year (Funds permitting!)

and

This is why I need help on deciding which one first 2391 or 2330. Welshgit

It depends to a degree on whether you are going to be taking on comm/indust work or restrict your testing to domestic premises. It also depends on how quick you are able to take it all in, how much on the job stuff you are doing, the variety of that work you get involved with. I'd definitely recommend leaving 2391 for the moment until you have a full grasp of the regs and general installation practice. They just can't teach "experience" I'm afraid.

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22603&postcount=39

 

[GreekIslandLover]

To add to my earlier comments, I was talking to a guy earlier today at the 17thy exam who is trying to get NIC registration. He says that they are requiring 2391 as part of registration.

 

[spark-doctor]

At your currant level you are going to have several problems, You are going to have to join a competent person scheme or your prices are going to be higher than others as you will have to notify Building Control all the time. To join you will need a relevant qualification of competency ie 2382 & 2330, most will want 2391 but you will not stand a cat in hells chance of passing without out the foundation knowledge gained from the others.

Even then you will only be a defined scope so will be limited in the work you can take on.

C&G structure there coerces so they are building blocks to your knowledge.

My advise would be to start at college and do the 2330, 2382 and then the 2391. If you are working during this, you will be gaining more experience as you go and the 2391 would be easier.

I know it seems like a long winded way but you don't want to throw your hard eared money away on coerces you would not be able to pass.

 

[springcrocus]

Hi, welshgit.

I am/was in a similar situation to yourself, needing to retrain and add another string to my bow, so to speak. I have been a prolific electrical DIYer for over thirty five years and decided it was time to get some qualifications under my belt. I started by joining up on this forum and just generally getting into the sparky frame of mind, had a look at the 2330 and decided I was a bit too old to be sitting in a classroom with a lot of the younger generation. So I went off to college and passed my 17th edition (July) and just finished my EAL Domestic Installer course last week (results not in yet but am pretty confident). I have also signed up to do my 2391 in January because I feel that, although it is not a requirement for the sort of work I expect to do, the knowledge I will gain during the course will make me feel more confident about doing electrical for other people and will, hopefully, show my potential customers that I am committed to providing a good and SAFE service.

Although quite a few members have recommended that you do the 2330, if you are sufficiently confident in your abilities then you may find it a bit of a chore. The 2391 is not an easy course, by any means, but I think it may hold more value for you than the 2330.

Now waiting to get shot down in flames.

 

[beemer]

I have been a prolific electrical DIYer for over thirty five years and decided it was time to get some qualifications under my belt. I have also signed up to do my 2391 in January because I feel that, although it is not a requirement for the sort of work I expect to do, the knowledge I will gain during the course will make me feel more confident about doing electrical for other people and will, hopefully, show my potential customers that I am committed to providing a good and SAFE service.

Now waiting to get shot down in flames.

Hi Springcrocus, I too had a steep learning process as a DIY electrician for a few years before attending qualification courses (2330,2381 and 2 X 2391 courses) however I was hustled onto a 2391 course whilst on my 2330 and didn't stand a chance. I completed the first 2391 but did not attempt the exam as it became quite obvious that testing experience was needed before attempting the exam. The 2391 course is really for experienced testers!

I passed my 3 year 2330 in June 2007 and went for the 2391 cse in the following September, but failed the theory....and I thought I was ready for it!

Dave