30mA RCD main switch

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NozSpark

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I went to look at a job today which was having problems, the RCD main switch was tripping intermittently (every couple of days at random times).

March this year they had the 8 way CU replaced with a RCD main switched one, no EIC and no Part P cert.... so they got someone in to do a PIR which had a couple of failures which were then put right.

As I said, since this job was done it has tripped out now and then; the guy who did the PIR has been back once or twice and could only find a burnt out socket, which he replaced and hoped that had sorted the fault. It has since tripped again and as he is based out of area he recomended that they get a local spark in to have a fresh look (that's where I come in).

When I get there all the electric is on (fault not showing its self) so even if I tested it I wouldn't find a fault (PIR cert on site to look at), all the apliances are new as it is a young couples first house so all I could do I tell them to unplug items that they aren't using and to make a diary of events. If everything stays ok then they could plug in more and more things over a long period and see how it goes.

The main problem as I saw it was that even though it had a PIR carried out they did not mention the RCD non-compliance, so I recommended that they replace the RCD for a main switch and MCB's for RCBO's (essencially a CU change, but keeping the enclosure), while this probably won't cure the fault it will limit it's effects and narrow the search!!

BTW it's a TNS installation and I did enquire wether neighbours were having problems and thay said they weren't. I also tested RCD (0 and 180 deg) and it tripped well within limits 1 x 18mS 5 x 8.8mS Ramp 23mA (1/2 and manual both OK)

Any other ideas??

 
Noz I am a little bit worried as it has not been fitted yet (fitted March this year) Only joking. What where this insulation readings on the cables.

Batty

 
Ooooppps (March 08 that should have been!!)

I did not carry out any IR readings when I went there as the fault was in hiding!!, but the PIR showed mostly 99Mohms with a couple around 25Mohms

I also told them I'd put a Non RCD socket in the meter cupboard for them for the fridge, i they get me to change the board..

 
Badger,

If read you post correctly (seems to be in a bit of a code) then I think you are referring to 16th regs

Under 17th regs all socket outlets require RCD protection and all ciruits burried <50mm need RCD unless the cables have earthed mechanical protection.

You can get away without RCD on a socket so long as it is labled and for a specific purpose under 17th ed!

 
Thought I might have!!

I see what you mean now that you have added some words...

Yes, garage CU with RCD main switch from non RCD sub main is OK in my view, but not the whole house CU!!

In all honestly I cannot see them getting me to fit RCBOs (7 @

 
Is it an electric cooker and have they got an immersion. These are the usual suspects for nuisence tripping. Get them to leave cooker and immesion off for a few days if poss.

Batty

 
Single electric oven, just been repaired by pro's, on plug top and a gas combi...

Told them to unplug (not just switch off) all non-essential appliances for a couple of weeks (plug in when in use and then unplug) and keep a log of any tripping. If none then they could start to plug stuff in (but not all at once)...

Oh forgot to say kitchen sockets are on a 20A radial!!

 
1] Stuff what it says on the certs.. Re-do the IR tests.... (and any other you think may be relevant.)

2] It may be a combination of 2 or more appliances on together!

3] do IR tests @ 230v across L&N combined to E..

with everything plugged in....... get an idea what potential leak current there may be.

4] Too much beer 1:21 am... brain stopped... :_|

Sorry!:(Blushing:|

 
Electrically everyting on a 30mA RCD ticks all the safety boxes. It doesn't tick the 'sh*t there's no lights and I've just falled down stairs box however! It's an equation that your customer needs to come to terms with - vs a new board or RCBO's - but to avoid an electrical hazard where is the arguement?

 
?:| :|

Electrically everyting on a 30mA RCD ticks all the safety boxes. It doesn't tick the 'sh*t there's no lights and I've just falled down stairs box however! It's an equation that your customer needs to come to terms with - vs a new board or RCBO's - but to avoid an electrical hazard where is the arguement?
minimise inconvenience me thinks?

314.1 (iii)?

What you doin up this time of night Mr TheGlitz??? :eek:

 
?:| :| minimise inconvenience me thinks?

314.1 (iii)?
No-one has died from inconvenience before. If I was doing a job for a poor old dear with a serviceable wylex board I would give them the option of adding an RCD or having a new board. If fitting the single RCD I would try and bring it to a height where they could operate it. More convenient!

I agree with segregation of circuits - but safety wise it's lighting that concerns me more than any and it's surprising how often there is just one lighting circuit, and also surprising how you often you need to combine them to stop tripping on a 17th edition board.

?:| :| What you doin up this time of night Mr TheGlitz??? :eek:
Keeping the wife company watching Newsnight, This Week, talking and drinking far too much whisky! Really must give up the talking - it's rather addictive!

I'm was also missing the point completely. That was a new board installed last year - by an unknown electrician - so agree that was c**p!!

 
?:| :| minimise inconvenience me thinks?

314.1 (iii)?

What you doin up this time of night Mr TheGlitz??? :eek:
do you think the electricity board worries about that when the key meter runs out

 
Intermittent fault , could be cooker, some of the older ones will build up to 30mA as they get hotter or the more elements you switch on .

Also, as above , immersion heaters are notorious trippers but will work forever with a rewirable fuse 3036, dodgey.

 
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