4 gang 3 way switching - no intermediary version of switch available

[the_biochemist]

Hi, please bear with me I want to check something before I have a circular conversation with my electrician - he is a good electrician but tends to be very black and white with his favourite phrase being 'it cant be done' rather than discussing ways around problems.

So my issue is I have 4 sets of lights (kitchen, dining room main, dining room ambient, outhouse) I would like to be able to switch from 3 entrance/exit ways (kitchen, dining room, outhouse).

I think this is 4 gang 3 way switching - and technically possible.

I have found some nice light switches I like with oak fronts and nice brass toggle switches by varilight (ridiculously expensive and unnecessary but I have a bit of a fetish for oak!). They are 4 gang 2 way light switches; the company also sells an intermediate version but only a single gang which is therefore unhelpful.

Therefore - I have a problem as I believe I would need 2no. 4 gang 2 way switches and 1no. 4 gang intermediate switch to do 3 way switching.

Is there a workaround to be able to do 3 way switching with 3no. 4 gang 2 way switches?

Quite up for 'simple' wiring variants or other 'technology' solutions but essentially really want to be able to use these switches as they are attractive!

Any help much appreciated.

 

[Sharpend]

How many switches do you currently have per light area? Are there two switches operating each area, dining room, kitchen, outhouse?
What is your interpretation of 3way switching?

 

[the_biochemist]

How many switches do you currently have per light area? Are there two switches operating each area, dining room, kitchen, outhouse?
What is your interpretation of 3way switching?

Thanks for the response.

This is a new extension so is being designed from scratch (and by designed I mean me trying to articulate what i want things to do!) at this point.

Basically there are 3 rooms kitchen, dining, and outhouse which are all semi-open plan and each with a door to the 'outside' - in normal use you can walk into any one of their doors and leave by another - as such I would like at each of these three doors to be able to switch any or all of the lights on or off as I come and go.

between those 3 rooms I have 4 'groups' of lights I will want to switch - 1) main kitchen lights, 2) main dining room lights, 3) main outhouse lights, and 4) some 'mood/ambient' lighting in the dining room.

Therefore what I am tying to achieve is having 4 light switches by these 3 doors each able to turn on and off these 4 groups of lights.

In terms of my terminology -

I have used the term 3 way switching as I have seen a number of simple examples of what I want with a single lighting circuit where there are 2no. 2 way switches and 1no. intermediate switch providing the ability to switch that lighting circuit on and off in 3 separate places - they seem to suggest it is 3 way switching.

The 4 gang piece comes from four light switches on the same faceplate and they have com l1 and l2 so are 2 way.

Hope that explains what is in my somewhat muddled brain!

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

3 way switching is what Americans often call what we know as 2 way switching.
A 2 way switch can only do 2 way switching, you have one at either end of 2 way switching. If you want more switches for the same light you have to use an "Intermediate switch" You can have as many intermediate switches as you like.

2 way switches have 3 terminals intermediate switches have 4 terminals, so no, you can not use a 2 way switch as an intermediate switch, but you can use an intermediate switch as a 2 way switch

Its quite common to get a multiple gang switch that is only 2 way.

Have you looked at "grid switches" these you can make into any combination you like.

 

[kerching]

there a workaround to be able to do 3 way switching with 3no. 4 gang 2 way switches?

Yes
Do it with relays....depends how good your electrical is

OR

Buy three 4 gang 2 way plates
Buy 4 Intemeediate switch plates
Change switches on 4g plate for intermediates
Fit the now removed 2way switch modules on the 4 single plates
Sell the 4 single plates on ebay
Simples.....if the switches are interchangeable

 

[the_biochemist]

3 way switching is what Americans often call what we know as 2 way switching.
A 2 way switch can only do 2 way switching, you have one at either end of 2 way switching. If you want more switches for the same light you have to use an "Intermediate switch" You can have as many intermediate switches as you like.

2 way switches have 3 terminals intermediate switches have 4 terminals, so no, you can not use a 2 way switch as an intermediate switch, but you can use an intermediate switch as a 2 way switch

Ah - really helpful and thanks for the simple answer about the 2 way switches not being suitable. Apologies for picking up the Americanism - useful to know that too.

 

[the_biochemist]

Yes
Do it with relays....depends how good your electrical is

OR

Buy three 4 gang 2 way plates
Buy 4 Intemeediate switch plates
Change switches on 4g plate for intermediates
Fit the now removed 2way switch modules on the 4 single plates
Sell the 4 single plates on ebay
Simples.....if the switches are interchangeable

I would ask my electrician about relays but feel he may either have a coronary given you finished that option with laughing face!

Funnily enough I did send a message to the importer asking if the intermediate switch piece is interchangeable with the two way - i thought that might have been a stupid question but maybe not soo much! - will see what they come back with.

 

[Sharpend]

Have you a link to said switches?

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Click here

Sadly no mention of grid switch, or intermediate option.

 

[the_biochemist]

Have you a link to said switches?

The two way 4 gang - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLXKT9MO.html
The intermediate 1 gang - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLXKT7MO.html

 

[Chilliepot]

I think you could also use smart switching. But you'd have to do a bit of homework on that. Like RF or WiFi. There's always a way.

 

[David R Connell]

Expensive but, why not buy 4 x single gang intermd. switches, 4 x 4 gang 2 way switches, change one of the 2 way switches in each 4 gang switch plate to an intermediate switch.

 

[David R Connell]

After thinking about it, all an intermediate switch does is switch the strappers (strappers being what us very old sparks used to call them).

 

[kerching]

Back to what I said then

 

[brummydave]

I interpret '3-way' switching as switching from 3 separate places. Just as 2-way is from 2, and 4-way would be from 4. Never even thought of what the US calls it.
Anyway, using wired methods, as others have said above, you need intermediate switches to have 3 or more switching positions.

This won't help with your desire for wooden things - although a call to Hamilton or Varilight might get you a custom made set. Or follow previous advice about buying singles and swapping round.

Scolmore Click mode light switches are 'minigrid' as standard and you can easily mix and match 1-way, 2-way, intermediate, double pole switches on the same faceplate. They just have a little screw. I often buy them from Toolstation, but they are white plastic.

Alternatively, wireles options like 'Quinetic' from TLC or Ener-J from CEF simply have a wired receiver connected to the lights and a completly wireless switch wherever you want. Last I checked you could have up to 10-way switching.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Just saying, there are lots of switches out there that will do the job, BUT the OP has a "thing" about oak, and now he has seen some toggle switches with oak patress, that is what he wants, not regular white switches.

 

[Chilliepot]

Expensive but, why not buy 4 x single gang intermd. switches, 4 x 4 gang 2 way switches, change one of the 2 way switches in each 4 gang switch plate to an intermediate switch.

That is the best and most efficient way of doing it!

 

[David R Connell]

It's the only way I could think of with my 60+ years of experience, mind you, it's going to be a wiring nightmare for this persons "can't do" electrician.

 

[kerching]

It's the only way I could think of with my 60+ years of experience, mind you, it's going to be a wiring nightmare for this persons "can't do" electrician.

Expensive but, why not buy 4 x single gang intermd. switches, 4 x 4 gang 2 way switches, change one of the 2 way switches in each 4 gang switch plate to an intermediate switch.

Well,it would be expensive as he only needs 3 of the 4 gang switches as he only has 3 switch locations.....

If the electrician is hard of thinking then swapping the internals ( if feasible) is the easiest option....which is what I said ages ago

 

[David R Connell]

Changing it to 3 of both obviously will still work, I missed (being 80+ and now disabled) the part of 3 locations, as I came to this problem late in the discussion.
Being always right is not necassarily a good thing, if it fits wear it!