50 Years Too Late But........................

[steptoe]

During the Great War Ireland never had conscription, although there was political unrest there by far a greater number percentage of the population volunteered for service,  but the labour party forced through the conscription act, although never enacted, it turned the mood sour in Ireland and sinn fein gained a lot of support for the resultant separation,  

As for modern day, labour was in power during the late 60s early 70s when the ira could have been stopped before they got a good following, it is widely accepted that they were almost crushed but the labour government backed down due to outside pressures.

Partition in Ireland is a strange thing, did you know the ira murdered their own leader for agreeing to it, Michael Collins was declared a traitor for not getting the whole of Ireland, which was never going to happen, so his own men killed him.

btw, strange as it may seem, I admire Michael Collins, he was a man that had belief and conviction. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Oh No!    Not "The Irish Question"  !!!

Do we have the bandwidth?

 

[ProDave]

This NI discussion I find interesting.

Ever since I was a boy, there has been the "troubles" in NI. the news would report what was going on, but never why or the history behind it.

I guess what I would like to find is a concise and accurate potted history of what happened and when, as frankly without knowing that it's unfair to comment on what is right or wrong.  I did find some of the stuff about it in Peaky Blinders interesting, but that can hardly be described as an accurate history lesson.

What DOES seriously irk me though, is that it's all portrayed on the news as religion, Protestants Vs Catholics.

Sorry, that is a load of B******s.

It has NOTHING to do with religion.  It's simply one side want Ulster to be part of Eire, and the other side wants it to be part of the UK. Religion does not figure into it, other than perhaps a higher percentage of Irish are catholic, and a higher percentage of unionists are protestants.  What about the sizeable proportion of NI society that don't follow a religion?

And as for you have to live in one part of town or the other depending on your religion. I'm sorry again, I could not live in a country like that where I was not welcome on the "wrong" side of town.  Wherever in the UK I have lived I have known people of different religions living together in harmony, and frankly most people don't give two hoots what religion their neighbour is (though we do find the Jehova's at the end of our road mildly interesting)

I guess it's the "not understanding" that makes NI a place most folk from the rest of the UK neither want to visit or to go and live and work. that's a shame as apart from the centre of Belfast, I'm willing to bet most of it is just like any other part of the UK. 

 

[Evans Electric]

I wouldn't want to visit NI TBH  and I certainly wouldn't want to live there .    Too much hatred and gangsterism going on .

 

[binky]

Been on holiday in the area were Micheal Collins was murdered the Galtee V Valley think it was - still plenty of IRA grafitti on road signs around there 20 years ago, made the holiday a bit worrying!

Can't really see true peace happening for generations - only a strong economy and a bit if wealth will really sort it out in my opinion. Comfy people can't be bothered to fight!

At least I now know why you dislike Labour so much. As for religion, that's just an identifying badge. True God followers should be working for peace not war.

 

[steptoe]

I'll try and help a bit,

but, remember, everything I say will be biased, even if I try and not be,

the religion thing,

you are spot on, nowadays its a cover for gangsters, and thugs,

back when I worked there it depended on what side of the street you worked on as to who you paid your protection money to,

as for protection money, it did work, friend of mine had his petrol station turned over, he spoke to his local politician,

had all his money back the next day, and his cigs, and the guy that did it was dumped at the polis station, where they took him to intensive care before charging him.

as for not mixing, that is true of some areas, mostly large towns and cities, around where my mum lives its fairly well mixed, although there is still some segregation of a degree.

I think the big shock my wife had was the polis barracks, she said they look like prisons with high walls, barb wire etc, and most polis are armed as a rule, rather than the exception

it truly is a beautiful country, it just has a real big chip on its shoulder,

religion is a part of everyday life in NI, my wife couldnt understand why so many names for our kids were a definite NO, a name can usually define your religion in NI,

but, there is one part of life that I have never known religion to enter into,

motorcycle racing, I dont know why, but it has always transgended both sides, rallying too is a-political, remember, politics and religion go hand in hand in NI,

did you know, Liverpoll FC is a 'protestant' team, and man U is a 'catholic' team ? well, until the '70s and George Best played for man u and it then became acceptable for a protestant to support them, most pubs ban football shirts of any team for this reason.

 

[Evans Electric]

This stuff reaches down the generatons though ,   I was doing a job at a local garage , mechanic , who I knew as a Brummie says he wants to get off earlier to watch the match .   

Round here that means going to Villa Park so I tell him theres no match on today .     No he says ,  on TV  , Celtic V Rangers  .   Puzzled I say why would you want to to watch that ?   

" Well its a Paddy thing .. parents are Irish & we all support  +++++++ "  ( Whichever is the catholic team )

 

[ProDave]

Thanks for that insight Steps.

Yes there's a lot of this sectarian stuff in parts of Scotland, Glasgow in particular. Up here in the Highlands, none of it, at least none I see.

I was only recently I realised they  have Orange order marches through Glasgow, and the Celtic Vs Rangers thing is almost feudal.  Someone once asked me "who do you support, Celtic or Rangers"  They just could not compute my answer "neither I'm not interested in football" so they repeated the question and I repeated the answer.  I think they walked off thinking "He's a dumb sh it"

 

[steptoe]

now, the football thing,

i have a funny tale regards that, and how religion is a funny friend,

when I lived in NI I often came over to England to see a lady friend I met whilst working here,

on one occassion the boat was full of celtic supports, I'm a Pict btw if you hadnt guessed,

anyway, they were singing 'Willie McBride' aka 'The Green Fields of France' and I got to singing it with them,

they were approached by the stewards and told if they didnt refrain from singing they would not be granted return passage,

there was a coachload of them,

anyhows, I kept on singing [ I use the term singing loosely ] and got told them same thing,

I explained I wasnt with the football fans, and in actual fact I was a Pict and not a Celtic supporter,

talk about the football fans disbelieving what they just heard, and how did I know the song,,,,,

  I know a lot of songs from both sides, I just dont know the notes,,,  :slap

anyway, the ships staff couldnt do anything, and I not only got a load of beer bought to me, but a lift to Glasgow train station, and made about 50 new friends on that sailing.

 

[steptoe]

just to add a bit on this, regards the NI position on english politics,

in general unionists in NI feel betrayed by the english, it goes back to when the turmoil in Ireland was at the beginning of the 20th century,

and Sir Edward Carson raised an army, the Ulster Volunteer Force, which happens to have its eternal roots 50yards from where I grew up, so maybe Im biased,,,,,

now, as the Great War happened, something in the region of 20,000 men from Carsons army signed up, stories say it was on one signature of Sir Edward Carson alone that these men and boys signed up, I dont know,

also, please remember, a LOT of Irish catholics also signed up, to become the 16th Irish,

Carsons army became the 36th Ulster Division, the UVF,

now, on going to war, these men believed england would do right by them when they returned, and keep their country British,

as we know, it didnt happen, its known as the English Betrayal,

and a deep seated suspicion of english government has perpetuated ever since, all parties,

now you may wonder why I [sort of] support tory,

well, that is all down to one person, and one person alone, Maggie and how she stood up to the hunger strikers,

yes, she Fkd up a l;ot of stuff, and even done the anglo-irish agreement,

but, its widely known due to the memos sent from labour at the time that she stood alone in doing so,

NO-ONE , not even in her own government gave her any backing, Labour privately despised what she was doing, I dont know what their public view was, but they privately told her in NO uncertain terms she HAD to release all the republican prisoners.

maggie didnt back down,

now, I probably dont understand her stance on the miners, in much the same as most of you may not understand the stance on NI,

so I apologise for jumping in on that,

so, in reality, that is the only real reason that ANY english politician gained any sort of respect from any unionist,

NOT the party, it just so happens she was tory and nothing else,

I take it you do realise that NI is NOT a part of Great Britain, only part of the UK,,,,,,,

its a complicated sh** of affairs, at present I dont even have a 'proper' British passport, I have a British Isles one as it was issued from a Crown Dependency,,,,,   :shakehead

 

[Evans Electric]

just to add a bit on this, regards the NI position on english politics,

in general unionists in NI feel betrayed by the english, it goes back to when the turmoil in Ireland was at the beginning of the 20th century,

and Sir Edward Carson raised an army, the Ulster Volunteer Force, which happens to have its eternal roots 50yards from where I grew up, so maybe Im biased,,,,,

now, as the Great War happened, something in the region of 20,000 men from Carsons army signed up, stories say it was on one signature of Sir Edward Carson alone that these men and boys signed up, I dont know,

also, please remember, a LOT of Irish catholics also signed up, to become the 16th Irish,

Carsons army became the 36th Ulster Division, the UVF,

now, on going to war, these men believed england would do right by them when they returned, and keep their country British,

as we know, it didnt happen, its known as the English Betrayal,

and a deep seated suspicion of english government has perpetuated ever since, all parties,

now you may wonder why I [sort of] support tory,

well, that is all down to one person, and one person alone, Maggie and how she stood up to the hunger strikers,

yes, she Fkd up a l;ot of stuff, and even done the anglo-irish agreement,

but, its widely known due to the memos sent from labour at the time that she stood alone in doing so,

NO-ONE , not even in her own government gave her any backing, Labour privately despised what she was doing, I dont know what their public view was, but they privately told her in NO uncertain terms she HAD to release all the republican prisoners.

maggie didnt back down,

now, I probably dont understand her stance on the miners, in much the same as most of you may not understand the stance on NI,

so I apologise for jumping in on that,

so, in reality, that is the only real reason that ANY english politician gained any sort of respect from any unionist,

NOT the party, it just so happens she was tory and nothing else,

I take it you do realise that NI is NOT a part of Great Britain, only part of the UK,,,,,,,

its a complicated sh** of affairs, at present I dont even have a 'proper' British passport, I have a British Isles one as it was issued from a Crown Dependency,,,,,   :shakehead

Might have been them murdering Airey Neve , Stepps,  or Mountbatten  or the  Birmingham 21   Who knows ?