5419+rcbo

[Nicky Tesla]

I was speaking to another electrician the other day, and he was about to replace a DB. He said he was asked by his boss if he could just replace the mcbs with RCBO's instead, and he said he replied " sorry i carnt cos the main switch is a 5419" and something about it not being electronic.

What on earth is he on about? anybody got any idea where he got this idea? :C

 

[Manator]

BS 5419 is a withdrawn standard and should not be used. It would not be right to put new RCBO's into a board with this old standard main switch.

 

[Andy™]

5419 being old, he may not be able to get an RCBO replacement to fit? but the 'electronic' part, i have no idea....

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was made at 18:47 ----------

BS 5419 is a withdrawn standard and should not be used. It would not be right to put new RCBO's into a board with this old standard main switch.

ive put many 61009 RCBO's into MK's with 5419 isolators... cant see any problem with that....

 

[Manator]

You are right Andy it can be done, however it would be noted as a deviation on the certificate because the standard is now withdrawn

 

[Nicky Tesla]

The standard change to 60947 must just be minimum gap distance maybe, they are both 2 pole. Its a switch thats all i can not see a problem

 

[Manator]

When you sign a certificate you are signing to say that it meets all standards, because BS 5419 is not now recognised as a current standard you can not sign the certificate unless you add it as a deviation from the standards.

You are correct it is a switch just like any other I suppose, but is not now a recognised standard, which is why it should not be used.

 

[Sidewinder]

There may be other functional changes in the switch following the standard update, but nothing "electronic"!

 

[Nicky Tesla]

ta

 

[Phoenix]

I was also lead to beleive that any main switch which was manufacturerd to BS5419 also met BSEN 60947-3 due to the simularities in the standard. It came from the NICIEC inspecting engineer that even if a main switch was labeled as 5419, it would *not* be incorrect to say it met BSEN 60947-3 on the cert. Personally I go by what the device says but I undertsnad were he is comming from

 

[Manator]

I can see what the inspecting NICEIC engineer is saying, what I understand is that BS 5419 was from circa 1977 and was replaced by BSEN 60947-3. However, if you have to do any alterations to any circuit, or supply any additional supplies, you have to state that the work you have carried out conforms to the latest standards. Now because the main switch is an obsolete standard you could not sign any certificate without noting this, and the only way to do so is to note it as a deviation.

I am not saying it is wrong. I am just saying that you need to complete the certificates knowing this.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Another example could be were a replacement DB is likely to be connected to the old black n red cables which are also obsolete.

Not illegal, just needs mentioning on the cert.

Just replacing RCBO's is an improvement to what existed even with the old type switch.

 

[Manator]

Red and Black cables are not obsolete, and labels have been made so that each colour should be identified should the installation contain mixed colours.

There is no problem in improving or making safer any installation, what is important, is your signature and what it could mean.

 

[PC Electrics]

An EIC has a section for noting down the BS of the main switch along with it's location and rating, so as long as it's filled in correctly no need to note any further deviation IMO.

If you're 'troubled' by an old mainswitch, then change that as well. There's plenty of din rail mounting mainswitches about.

Personally I couldn't get excited about it.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

me neither, i just wanted to know where he got the idea from