Adding Addition Batteries

[dawsonnick]

Hello everyone,

I live in France and my installation is now two years old so I am getting to grips with what I actually bought, what I thought I was buying, how it actually works and how I can improve it!

Wow!

I have 21 panels in total split between an Imeon Inverter with a Pylontech 2.4KWH lithium battery which is fed by 11 panels whilst the remaining 10 panels work with micro inverters on each panel from a company called EnPhase.

All good stuff and it works but could be better!

• I effectively have no automated fail-over but then, we don't have power cuts so an expensive option for little gain.
• I get paid a pittance for the electricity that I "sell" to the grid so would be better utilising it where I can - I do use some of it but would use more with more battery storage as, in the winter our heating runs and this could use the power stored during the day rather than electricity from the grid and 10x the price.
• I think that had I all my panels running through the Imeon inverter, I would have more control but too late for that now.
• The Enphase system of micro-inverters performance is poor in hot weather in comparison with the Imeon solution. I think it is simply due to the heat on the roof as we are quite far south in France.
• The single 2.4KWH battery is too small and the installer took advantage of my lack of knowledge when he installed this - I was also charged a very high overhead for the battery !
• The battery is set to be used at sunset (controlled by the internet (?)) which is fine in the winter when sunset is early but, in the summer, the battery hardly gets used and our cooking in the evening utilises power from the grid as the sun is too low to give us much solar energy.
• My understanding of the battery warranty is the number of cycles so the sunrise/sunset thing works well for this but how big an impact woudl it be if I changed the settings to work on a timer?
• The installer seems to be doing very well with solar installs and has expanded his business but doesn't seem interested in supporting existing installations. I don't think that he really wants to spend the time tweaking installations and would rather move onto the more lucrative new customer. I have a friend in the UK who tells me that he sees the same thing.

So, what do I want to do?

I want to augment my existing battery with additional batteries.

I am not an electrician but am not adverse to getting involved. I have contacted my supplier but the emails go unanswered.

My understanding is that I can simply buy additional batteries of the same make and type i.e. Pylontech U2000C and connect them in parallel once I mount them in the cabinet - which has enough space to allow me to do so.

I can buy the batteries along with Supports and cables from a supplier here in France via the internet.

I am unsure what I need regarding the cables as the suggestion on the internet is that when buying the batteries, most people also but these cables:-

• 2x2m 25mm² red adn black
• Connecteurs Amphenol + cosses M8

I have no idea what Amphenol means!

If I buy four batteries that takes my total capacity to 12KWH

I link them all in parallel which I can do easily using the cables as above.

The existing battery is connected to the inverter - given that they are all in parallel, do i connect any of the others using that mysterious Amphenol cable?

Is there any configuration required on the Inverter to tell it that the battery bank has grown (albeit that the current should not have changed)?

So - lots of questions and a sterep learning curve.

Hopefully someone will have some experience here or perhaps I can share my experience to date!

thank you in anticipation

 

[binky]

This video should answer a lot of your questions. Not sure about your inverter, as I've never fitted one if those, but manuals should be available on line somewhere. The cables should be supplied with the batteries, you probably already have the long ones you need to wire to the inverter.

 

[Chrisbee]

I have Pylontech batteries. I added a 3000 to a 2000 and then more recently added a 5000.
It was very straightforward following the instructions.
The master, the one communicating with the inverter, has to be the one with the later software version. But that's about the only stipulation.
They will even balance charge levels between old and new before connecting to the inverter. Mind you, this can take a long time so charging or discharging each individually to similar charge levels seemed much quicker.

My biggest doubt was that now, I have a battery system capable of more current than the cable and fuses between them and the inverter. But the inverter is only capable of using current that's well within the spec, so that's OK.

 

[dawsonnick]

Hello everyone,

I live in France and my installation is now two years old so I am getting to grips with what I actually bought, what I thought I was buying, how it actually works and how I can improve it!

Wow!

I have 21 panels in total split between an Imeon Inverter with a Pylontech 2.4KWH lithium battery which is fed by 11 panels whilst the remaining 10 panels work with micro inverters on each panel from a company called EnPhase.

All good stuff and it works but could be better!

• I effectively have no automated fail-over but then, we don't have power cuts so an expensive option for little gain.
• I get paid a pittance for the electricity that I "sell" to the grid so would be better utilising it where I can - I do use some of it but would use more with more battery storage as, in the winter our heating runs and this could use the power stored during the day rather than electricity from the grid and 10x the price.
• I think that had I all my panels running through the Imeon inverter, I would have more control but too late for that now.
• The Enphase system of micro-inverters performance is poor in hot weather in comparison with the Imeon solution. I think it is simply due to the heat on the roof as we are quite far south in France.
• The single 2.4KWH battery is too small and the installer took advantage of my lack of knowledge when he installed this - I was also charged a very high overhead for the battery !
• The battery is set to be used at sunset (controlled by the internet (?)) which is fine in the winter when sunset is early but, in the summer, the battery hardly gets used and our cooking in the evening utilises power from the grid as the sun is too low to give us much solar energy.
• My understanding of the battery warranty is the number of cycles so the sunrise/sunset thing works well for this but how big an impact woudl it be if I changed the settings to work on a timer?
• The installer seems to be doing very well with solar installs and has expanded his business but doesn't seem interested in supporting existing installations. I don't think that he really wants to spend the time tweaking installations and would rather move onto the more lucrative new customer. I have a friend in the UK who tells me that he sees the same thing.

So, what do I want to do?

I want to augment my existing battery with additional batteries.

I am not an electrician but am not adverse to getting involved. I have contacted my supplier but the emails go unanswered.

My understanding is that I can simply buy additional batteries of the same make and type i.e. Pylontech U2000C and connect them in parallel once I mount them in the cabinet - which has enough space to allow me to do so.

I can buy the batteries along with Supports and cables from a supplier here in France via the internet.

I am unsure what I need regarding the cables as the suggestion on the internet is that when buying the batteries, most people also but these cables:-

• 2x2m 25mm² red adn black
• Connecteurs Amphenol + cosses M8

I have no idea what Amphenol means!

If I buy four batteries that takes my total capacity to 12KWH

I link them all in parallel which I can do easily using the cables as above.

The existing battery is connected to the inverter - given that they are all in parallel, do i connect any of the others using that mysterious Amphenol cable?

Is there any configuration required on the Inverter to tell it that the battery bank has grown (albeit that the current should not have changed)?

So - lots of questions and a sterep learning curve.

Hopefully someone will have some experience here or perhaps I can share my experience to date!

thank you in anticipation

Thank you so much - it seems a lot more straightforward now that I have read some more and seen this video!

 

[dawsonnick]

I have Pylontech batteries. I added a 3000 to a 2000 and then more recently added a 5000.
It was very straightforward following the instructions.
The master, the one communicating with the inverter, has to be the one with the later software version. But that's about the only stipulation.
They will even balance charge levels between old and new before connecting to the inverter. Mind you, this can take a long time so charging or discharging each individually to similar charge levels seemed much quicker.

My biggest doubt was that now, I have a battery system capable of more current than the cable and fuses between them and the inverter. But the inverter is only capable of using current that's well within the spec, so that's OK.

Thank you for making the effort to reply - it appears to be a lot more straightforward than I first thought and I will order the batteries at the end of the month (only because we are on holiday for a couple of weeks otherwise I would order them today!).

 

[dawsonnick]

I have Pylontech batteries. I added a 3000 to a 2000 and then more recently added a 5000.
It was very straightforward following the instructions.
The master, the one communicating with the inverter, has to be the one with the later software version. But that's about the only stipulation.
They will even balance charge levels between old and new before connecting to the inverter. Mind you, this can take a long time so charging or discharging each individually to similar charge levels seemed much quicker.

My biggest doubt was that now, I have a battery system capable of more current than the cable and fuses between them and the inverter. But the inverter is only capable of using current that's well within the spec, so that's OK.

Pylontech have told me that it is fine to mix battery capacities (as you have) with the master being on the battery with the latest firmware ( I will upgrade them all to the latest and now buy two U5000's to add to my U2000C).

They also advise that I should force charge them all to 100% asap and can use the inverter for this but, I can't find any settings in the Imeon Inverter manual to do this.

Perhaps this is not an option on this Inverter (I have asked the manufacturer but doubt if they will inform me rather suggesting that I get my installer to do the work).

Perhaps I should do the install first thing in the morning when the existing battery is at it's lowest level (30% or less) as this will be as close as I can get them to be at similar levels!

Are you aware of inverters come with an option to force charge?

 

[Chrisbee]

The installation manual says the following:-

1) After the battery module powered on, the soft-start function takes 3sec to
active. After soft-starts battery ready to output high power.
2) During capacity expansion or replacement, when parallel different
SOC/voltage of module together, please maintain the system in idle for
≥15mins or till the SOC LEDs becomes similar(≤1dot difference) before
normal operation.

What I took 2) to mean was to disconnect batteries from inverter, both power and communications cables. (Definitely idle then)
Make sure all batteries are turned off.
Parallel all batteries with the short power cables. Hook up the short Comms cables between batteries.
Turn on the toggle switches - nothing happens.
Press the button on the master battery. This starts them all, via the Comms cables.
They all appear to sit and slowly swap charge until they're all balanced.

 

[binky]

Are you aware of inverters come with an option to force charge?

yes, but it's sometimes lost in poor Chinese to English translation.

 

[dawsonnick]

The installation manual says the following:-

1) After the battery module powered on, the soft-start function takes 3sec to
active. After soft-starts battery ready to output high power.
2) During capacity expansion or replacement, when parallel different
SOC/voltage of module together, please maintain the system in idle for
≥15mins or till the SOC LEDs becomes similar(≤1dot difference) before
normal operation.

What I took 2) to mean was to disconnect batteries from inverter, both power and communications cables. (Definitely idle then)
Make sure all batteries are turned off.
Parallel all batteries with the short power cables. Hook up the short Comms cables between batteries.
Turn on the toggle switches - nothing happens.
Press the button on the master battery. This starts them all, via the Comms cables.
They all appear to sit and slowly swap charge until they're all balanced.

Wow!

I have been looking in the wrong place!

Of course, the batteries have their own controllers and can balance out without the need for the inverter to be present!

Thank you so much for pointing this out!

Genius!!

 

[michael8554]

Still believe it's worth putting each battery to charge on its own to max, using a Time of Charge setting on the inverter.
Then connect together.

 

[dawsonnick]

I will look at that - I believe that the Inverter can do this - I just need to find out how!

 

[Chrisbee]

I did end up doing that just to speed up the process.

If you do it after sundown then you could discharge each of them individually to the level of the lowest just by turning on some loads. (Immersion, kettle, tumble drier etc)

 

[binky]

I will look at that - I believe that the Inverter can do this - I just need to find out how!

one possibility is to set the batteries to UPS rather than 'self use'

 

[dawsonnick]

Thank you, I will look into that option.

 

[dawsonnick]

Batteries in situ. I tried to pet them balance themselves out this afternoon but that is going to take a long time.


I ended up connecting them to the inverter and switching everything on and will monitor as they discharge this evening and charge tomorrow.


The application (Imeon Inverter) sees the batteries but I don't think it is reporting the correct percentage - not surprising really as the battery management system is trying to level charges whilst the inverter is making its own demands!


I will monitor and see what happens.

Thank you again everyone for your support - without which I may not have gone ahead without a professional doing the work!

 

[michael8554]

Bottom battery looks to be at 100%, the rest at about 66%.

Switch off the lowest battery and switch on again when the rest are at 100%.

Power cables to the inverter should be short ones from the top battery.

How are you ventilating the cabinet ?

 

[dawsonnick]

The batteries seem to be sorting themselves out by themselves and today the sun is charging them slowly as we have fog!

There is no additional ventilation other than the air space surrounding the batteries.

The cabinet is in a stand-alone brick garage which gets cold in the winter and probably quite warm in the summer!

There was no ventilation installed with the original battery by the installer two years ago - I have increased the number of batteries with the addition of four more!

You are correct regarding the length of the cables as I have simply used the original cables which ran from the bottom battery.

I will see what the state of charge is tomorrow and if they are not even, will switch off the lowest battery (good idea) until the others reach 100%.

Thank you for your advice.