Advice Before Monday? Adding A Socket?

[Redishbird2]

Hello...I am visiting my grandma for the weekend...hence the urgency before monday when I leave.

She is struggling with her freezer in her bedroom.

There is room in the kitchen but the nearest possible power is a 13amp fused switch running a heater although she never uses this.

The switched fused socket appears to be on the ring main...e.g. 2 wires,,,2 red, 2 black and 2 earth.

Can I run a single socket from this?

Or...is it better to put my single socket onto the ring main and run the fused switch as the spur???

I am quite handy and have been and bought my socket, back box, cable...etc

BUT...am now doubting my own confidence and capability...want to try and get it done for her tomorrow.

Is my proposal legal and safe???

Sorry to bother anyone on  weekend but would be really grateful for a response.

Thanks

Red

 

[Apache]

Anyone can add a spur to an existing circuit so what you suggest is legal.

How is the heater powered? Is it always live? Is it only live at night? Have you turned the heater on and checked if it is on a dedicated circuit or in the ring?

A freezer uses a lot less watts than a heater so it is a possibility. The ring main may be a more straightforward option. Have you got any testing gear? A single light up socket tester will give you some reassurance you are not going to be getting your inheritance early.

Welcome to the forum

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Welcome to the forum.....

to be perfectly blunt...  There is not enough information to fully answer your questions...

but I will answer the bits I can..

1/ Is it legal??

most probably YES, as the wiring regulations BS7671 is just non-statutory guidance..

there is a legal thing called Part-P of the building regualtions..

but from what you have described your work would probably not be within the scope of Part P..

2/ is it SAFE??

Impossible to answer without a few standard electrical tests results and some more detail about the cable sizes and the rating of the fuses / circuit breakers supplying the circuit.. 

Just because an accessory has 2xred black etc..  it does not mean it is a ring, it could be part way down a radial circuit?  

We would need test results for continuity to verify if it is truly a ring...

Also would need to verify a thing called earth loop impedance to ensure that the earth at the socket is good. 

I see so many bodged up wiring on DIY sockets & lights that I will always assume something is wired incorrectly and is unsafe until I have proved myself that it is safe! 

3/ Would it comply with current wiring regulations??

If your new socket has no RCD shock protection (may be built into your fuse box) then it may not comply. As most new domestic socket require RCD protection... (though there are exceptions)

4/ What test equipment have you got access to?  if you can do a few test readings for us we could then actually confirm how safe it is....

5/ Assuming it is a ring, with correct sized cables, fuses, good earth etc.. You proposal would probably be OK..

 

[steptoe]

sounds to my like a downflow heater in the kitchen, the may be an easy way around this

 

[kme]

Must concur with the advice of my colleagues above. 

It is unlikely that the easiest (comparatively) option (i.e. changing the fused spur for the socket) would make the premises any less safe than it is now.......BUT we are only forming our opinions on the limited information you provide. This is not a "dig" at you, merely an observation that, as spec. loc. notes above, we don`t have enough data to form a qualititive response. Can you tell us more?

 

[Redishbird2]

Wow guys...thanks for the prompt replies...I didn't think anyone would be up so late...let alone so many responses....and I can update you even more...

this has taught me one thing though...never type your question and ask your grandmother to count how many red, black and green wires!!!

There is also a brown and a blue...which she didn't think I needed to know..... so didn't tell me.

First of all...I am a nurse...not a sparky...so apologise if my info is poor...

I only have a light up test screwdriver.

The socket has 2 x white sleeved cables with red, black and one with a sleeved earth...the other has been trimmed back.

The third cable is also white sleeved with a blue, brown and earth.

The Dimplex heater...sited up near the ceiling is fed by the cable with the blue and brown wires.

All the cables look to be 1.5 - the red and black wires inside are quite fat compared to the wires in the lightswitch socket also nearby....(not sure if that info helps).

She is not bothered about the heater....and would like that to go (while I'm here) so could take that off completely...disconnect the cable with blue/brown at both ends...and change the fused switch front for a single plug socket????

Is that any better...certainly easier for me...sounds straightforward.... : O)

I'll leave this on...incase you get the time to say yes or no!

Cheers

Red

 

[NozSpark]

Personally I don't like the idea of that cut back earth....

Might be a damaged cable that someone's tried to "hide" from the protective devices

 

[kme]

If you`re saying that one of the two (red/black) cables has the earth wire cut back; i.e. only one earth cable connected (ignore the brown / blue for the moment) - then I`d like to know why that earth isn`t connected.

There is no problem with replacing the spur with a single socket - the earth currently NOT connected would need to be connected - obviously turn the mains off to do this. However, the caveat I would give is that, once the socket has been changed, it would be highly advisable to contact a local, reputable electrician, explain the circumstances, and ask them to call in, and test the circuit. It isn`t going to take them long - so ask for a price before they come.

HTH

KME

 

[ProDave]

+1 pictures please.

I read it as one entire cable has been cut back, not just the earth, meaning just one cable connected IN to the FCU.

Clarification needed from the OP.

 

[steptoe]

I'll accept pictures of either the wiring , or the nurse

Changing the whole thing to a single socket would be fine, providing that the reason for the cut back cable is properly established.

If, it is the entire red/ black that has been cut back, then perhaps its been a re-wire and the heater is a radial circuit.

On re-reading I think its a radial for sure, the brown/blue is the flex to the heater.

Is there a fuse in your fuse box marked kitchen heater? Probably 16amp, or coloured blue.

 

[Steve3948]

Steps there is such a thing as a male nurse you know. .

 

[Redishbird2]

Hi Guys...thanks so much...got side tracked from the pending wiring and have just finished painting her hallway...which was NOT on the agenda for my 2 days!

I did get stuck in to the socket before the painting.....as she wanted the heater gone. I undid the cable with the blue brown earth...from the socket AND the heater...took the heater off the wall...and the cable pulled out of the top hole...so that is now void.

What I am left with is two cables...each with red and black wires...AND...you will be pleased to hear...2 x earth which have been sleeved together in the green yellow sleeve. My fault for not checking before posting. Sorry.

I am not familiar with the fuse box that she has...she has one fuse box with 3 x cartridge things...all with blue dots. The other has 6 slots but only 5 filled...1 white - 5A, 1 blue 16A and 3 x red 30A - the power fed to the socket...for the fused swith was working off one of the red 30A fuses.

So...at the present time...I have the remaining cables connected to a fused switch which now does nothing.....

I'm pretty sure it would convert to a single socket???

She wiill be ringing round for someone to come and  take her fire and fireplace out...too big a job for me as that is definitely wired directly into the wall....why do people do that.....so I have no probs asking her to get him (or her) to check out my work. But would really like to her freezer shifted today.

sorry no pics available ....didn't bring a camera when I left Yorkshire as i knew this was not gonna be any holiday!   

You've all been fab on here...i really hope you say the single socket is good to go...as i need daylight to finish this.

cheers

Red

 

[ProDave]

Yes sounds like it's part of the ring and the earth situation is okay. Many will say twisting and sleeving together is the work of a cowboy, but that's only as it makes future testing in some circumstances harder. It doesn't make it unsafe.

So yes just fit the socket and it should be okay.

I'll have a guess that the smaller fuse box with three 15A fuses was / is for off peak storage heaters and water heater. The other box is the normal fuse box.

 

[steptoe]

+1^^^^

Id agree with my learned colleague .

Steve, i didnt think the name referred to the feathered variety :|

just,,,,,, hoping

 

[batty]

Should be able to change for a single socket only down side it appears you have no RCD protection. As its only going to be used for a fridge this really shouldn't be a problem as long as its not one of those that Catches on fire on defrost.

 

[Redishbird2]

Thanks to All who have supported me with this...it's all done and the new 'white' socket...surely makes the rest look naff. All working ok so far...not blown anything!

So..back to Yorkshire tomorrow...going to keep you in my favourites as I have some jobs at home pending....I have a big jacuzzi bath that I want to take out...I know it has electrics to work the bubbles and the radio...but I dont want it anymore...so will need to disconnect....will get on here when I start...promise will be able to have pics next time and i will be sure to  count ALL the wires first!

Quick message for Dirty Den...be careful what you wish for...not all nurses have the frilly dresses....personally I look after those persons detained on her majesty's pleasure...we nurses wear big strapping work boots and look as butch as hell!

Take care Guys...been great chatting.

Red

x

 

[NozSpark]

Ooooh,, you do know that'll only encourage him

 

[steptoe]

dirty den?

I do hope she's not talking about me?  :|  

then again, she did mention big boots, 

 

[Redishbird2]

LOL...if the cap fits!

I love this...

Yesterday has gone,
Tomorrow may never come,
Today is a gift,
That is why its called, The Present.

can I pinch it for my office wall?

 

[ProDave]

Another one.

In just 2 days time, tomorrow will be yesterday.