Angle Drills

[m4tty]

Hi,

Prob asked before lol but just wondered how many of you house bashing guys use an angle drill for drilling rows of holes in joists on rewires.

It will be used mainly with them wood beaver twist auger bits 20mm mostly but I wanted a cordless but dont think itll be powerful enough.

Im looking at a makita 18v 4.0ah lithium model but think I may need mains as this drill may be under powered.

makita do a mains version for about £180 or a bigger one for about £280 but doesnt look like it will fit between joists when drill bit is in chuck.

I want to drill straight holes rather than downhill ones which makes pulling the cable through a series of holes harder.

The big boy makita drill (6300LR) will defo be powerful enough but wont fit between joists. The mains (DA3010) looks best option but dont want hassle of trailing leads.

What im asking is do you recon the 18v version with 4.0ah batteries will be man enough with 20mm wood beaver or is pita mains the way to go ?

Any thoughts appreciated

Matt

 

[batty]

Matty if you use short bits they generally will fit I have the 6300 one you mention and unless the joists are really close this is fine. I generally use 110 mm short auger bits you can get wood beaver ones that are short but I find they don't seem to last very long.

Battery ones will be OK for a few holes but on new builds when timber is still drying out I don't think they would cope. My mains one struggles not bad if you have a new bit but after a few holes its hard work I find.

 

[lyserman]

Get some decent flat bits and the 18v version should be fine.

I have found the Bosch speed cut range cut through with very little effort with the smaller of my Makita 18v LXT drills. They pull themselves through the wood and seem to cut much quicker than the wood beavers.

Just in the middle of a 6 flat conversion and the wood there is old and hard and the Bosch bits are flying through it. A big thumbs up from me. The Dewalt flat bits are good too.

 

[Evans Electric]

Hi M4tty,  personally I don't think any battery drill has the same umph! as mains TBH .   Don't get me wrong , they're great tools but drilling joists and large masonary holes knocks the stuffing out of the batteries. 

We are all different , my mate will always plumb for his old 18V Bosch but I always run a lead out and go with mains  (Assuming there is power) .

The heating guys on a new build last year installed floor heating pipes and used an angle drill for the joists as they HAVE to be straight .  I think it was purpose made , battery, with a rubber grip for pushing sideways , I noticed it was much harder work than how we normally do it.  

         It does make wiriing easier but I've never bothered TBH .   Best thing I have is one of those  Beaver Augers , precision made for the job  but must check for nails at every hole .    

Edit :   Well worth investing in a bench grinder .  I've had one for years , £25 from Aldi or similar ,  put the edge back on flat bits instead of busting a gut .

 

[Andy™]

i manage fine with a normal SDS and holes on a slight angle...

sometimes use a cordless if its only a few holes, but even my 36v sds doesnt last long drill joists

and +1 on the bench grinder, rarely buy any drill bits, just sharpen them instead

 

[Evans Electric]

M4tty , a hint which you may already do but I'll drone on anyway . 

After choosing where the cable run will be  ( this is for new build working from below the joists)  I usually drill to a measured mark so the holes are in line .

That helps with wiring and looks professional  ( Bullshine baffles brains) .   And if you can pop  up between the joists you don't get covered in wood shavings and get stuff in your eyes.

The other thing , which I'm sure you know,  is to check the other side of the joist to be drilled for pipes/ cable etc     The first time you don't do it you'll be straight through a heating/gas/water/waste pipe or that sub-main you clipped there an hour before.

 

[batty]

I never worry about pipes as plumbers never seem to worry about my cables.

 

[Evans Electric]

i manage fine with a normal SDS and holes on a slight angle...

sometimes use a cordless if its only a few holes, but even my 36v sds doesnt last long drill joists

and +1 on the bench grinder, rarely buy any drill bits, just sharpen them instead

Same here.  Good investment , try to copy the original angle of the cutting edge, it won't be far off .    Tungsten bits too but they'll wear the wheel much quicker.

Just going back into the mists of time on this subject , to when there was no power on house build jobs , generators were out of the question and battery drills had'nt been invented.   The most automated device would have been the Stanley Pump Driver .

So , holes through joists with a long auger with a tee shaped handle , bleedin' awful.

 

[Sidewinder]

I won't go in to the issues that are caused when hoes are not drilled perpendicular through joists, equidistant about and on the true centre line,  with regard to the reduction in load bearing capacity then, as I guess I would not be popular!

 

[kerching]

For I too have sweated blood , balanced twixt joists on the third floor of a new build. No floorboards between me and mother earth. No H and S, just Me, a 1" hand auger, 20 marlboro, flask of coffee and hundreds of holes to drill.

Snapped Auger on one job and welded it back together, I still have it for nostalgic purposes

Angle Drills? Puff!

Just remembering the BAD old days

 

[batty]

When I started We were left to chop boxes in fletton brick walls with a hammer and bolster not much fun.

 

[Evans Electric]

Trouble is Sidey  , by the time the plumber has hacked half the top section away to get his wastepipe in , followed by the heating guys ...its just a case of try to  get yours in the top half somewhere .

When I started We were left to chop boxes in fletton brick walls with a hammer and bolster not much fun.

That prompted a lot of newbies to the trade to find other employment Batts   Can't say I blame them TBH

 

[Sidewinder]

Thing is Deke, you should not be putting it in the "top half" at all, the plumber should not be hacking chunks out of the top for his waste pipe, nor should the heating guys be notching the top for their pipes either.

I was at a premises recently where the BCO, was more than unhappy for joists to be notched, and wanted any penetrations ON the NA of the joist, or none would be allowed, and, he was willing to insist that they were changed!

So, things may, be changing for the better.

Mind, this house did have ceilings that were sagging, as well as the floors, due to such weaknesses having been allowed in the first place.

Any job I was in charge of I would not be allowing notched joists on a new house (even new ish) as the joist sizes have now been reduced due to value engineering and, the structural strength has been reduced as a result.

 

[NozSpark]

So how would you run 22mm copper pipes in? Because I wouldn't be allowing push fit either

 

[Sidewinder]

Not my problem!

You don't have to use push fit, just because the holes in the joist are correctly drilled.

You can still use soldered fittings.

If you are notching joists in the top face, then you just need to assess & calculate the reduction in the structural strength, and then reinforce the joist accordingly, if you can't work this out for yourself, then you need to get someone competent in to do it for you!

 

[steptoe]

Isn't there a building reg for such things?

Where joists can be drilled or notched, and at what sizes,

If you are unsure, yes, there is a reg for such things.

 

[NozSpark]

Isn't there a building reg for such things?

Where joists can be drilled or notched, and at what sizes,

If you are unsure, yes, there is a reg for such things.

You mean the one that every one but us (especially plumbits) ignore???

I've seen the underside of a floor/ceiling joins notched for a 50mm waste pipe before

 

[batty]

That will be customers though they don't want boxing in they pay the bill so get what they want.

 

[Evans Electric]

We are supposed to drill in the negative stress area of joists ....its in our codes of practice somewhere  ... it just seems strange that the tops can be hacked out by all and sundry ....so I just stick to the upper section where the drill bit will reach .

We rewired some empty houses once for the city council ......the joists had massive chunks out  of them ...I mean really massive where large lead wastepipes had been removed  and plumbers where taking a different route ...so we suggested , in the interests of structural soundness to rewire in those huge empty slots and plate them .  

          We were told , in no uncertain terms , to drill even more holes next to the massive gaps because Electricians have to drill through the negave stress areas.     Utterly ridiculous!!            But we did as we were told !!!!!