Home Storage & Solar continued

[Jimbo_100]

Hi Jimbo,

Welcome aboard.

It sounds like your proposed system is a copy of mine that Ive just done (switched on 24th December).

Why 2 x Mason Cases? The 280 case can take the full 16 battery count. I very nearly used the Mason case myself but built a small shed instead to house the inverter too.
If you bought your batteries from Fogstar and/or they come with small bits of threaded ron and nuts with built in locking, I threw them away, I couldnt get good tension with the torque specified. I replaced them with nuts, spring and plain washers (M6 from B&Q bulk section, £5 for whatever you can fit in a bag)

The Multiplus II is a great inverter, you should opt for the GX version if you can, that gives you all of the comms built in too so you dont need to buy a CERBO GX in addition.

Choose the DC switch and fuse wisely DC supplied by batteries can be brutal.

I purchased 35mm2 cable from ebay for the wire up.

Good luck, keep us posted, start a build thread.

Hi John,

Cheers for the welcome, I look forward to learning and contributing if I can, I'll start a build thread once back onshore to hopefully help others navigate their journey.

It was your very thread I stumbled on earlier this month that led me here, I've enjoyed reading your journey and in many ways it has reassured me I was pointing in the right direction with the array of options available out there.

Back in November I took the plunge and purchased 32 x LF280K Batteries (not 16 as i mentioned in the intro) and 2 x JK-B2A20S20P BMS's with BT on Alibaba. They arrived the morning I was due to fly out to the Rig on 20-Jan-23 (Delivery lad was a star and helped me move them inside). Back when I ordered them I had planned to build a double rack assembly and mount in the garage under the workbench in a thermostatically controlled encloser.

I'd been watching Andy @ the offgrid garage on Youtube in Oz and felt comfortable with building a rack system in my garage to do my DIY Powerwall. Later I decided to invest in the Seplos Mason DIY x 2 as it looked a more eloquent solution and the BMS has support for the Victron gear on its forums. I wanted to use the Victron gear straight from the outset as I had experience in setting up offgrid camping and solar setups in caravans when we lived in Oz, the gear is expensive but 1st class in build quality & support and recognised the world over for operating in tough conditions flawlessly.

There will be bus bars and M6 rod in the boxes with the batteries and also provided with the Seplos DIY kit. I'm a wee bit nervous I strip the top connectors on the Batteries and was considering investing in a suitable torque wrench. I prefer your suggestion of plain and spring washers to ensure a good contact. Also i suspect the batteries I've purchased have a single M6 threaded connector on the top of the battery from the spec sheet they sent through.

The Multiplus II is a great inverter, you should opt for the GX version if you can

I've taken your advise and sourced one on Amazon for £2000 at Batterie Megastore saving around £300 from the other UK supplier I had initially considered, good call m8.

Dont buy the official Victron CT, buy a generic one and save £100.

As I'm planning on storing the system in the garage is there any issue regarding a minimum distance between the meter box where the distribution board (I'm assuming the CT clamp is installed near the distribution panel where power comes into the house so as to sense potential import / export) I recon there will be approximately 15m cable routing. Note the garage is seperate from the main property by 1.5m with service conduit up thru the floor feeding power and water etc.

This leads me onto another question as the AC feed into the garage has a small distribution panel with a breakers / RCD running 2 x 13 amp double wall sockets and the lights. I've not physically verified the cable specs running to garage only the main breaker size 30A in the House consumer unit.

I do not feel the present wiring configuration is suitable to connect the Victron inverter to the consumer unit and will require cable sizing verification / upgrading and increased breaker sizing in the consumer unit (potentially a new consumer unit in the house as all breaker spaces are occupied). Now whilst I'm candidly discussing such matters be reassured this is not my area of expertise nor will I be undertaking the connection or disconnection of such devises. Whilst I'm happy to run cables to both ends under the floor space and drill holes and mount boxes etc the termination in and out will fall to a certified Electrician not me! However, I do wish to understand the sizing & termination process so i can better plan / source the right peeps to come do the work.

I purchased 35mm2 cable from ebay for the wire up.

I have read on a few forums to be very careful regarding sourcing the cabling (from china mainly) used to connect DC cables due to inferior material being used in construction (copper coated aluminium etc) who did you use on E-bay?

Choose the DC switch and fuse wisely DC supplied by batteries can be brutal.

An oversight on the Seplos Mason IMO is the lack of a DC breaker switch within the unit front panel to allow complete isolation from the DC bus / invertor TBH. Since i'm using 2 x Seplos Mason units I was considering joining them via a dedicated Victron Bus bar / shunt with 150 amp fuses on + & - and connect each battery with a dedicated isolation switch. Thereafter, from the DC switch each battery is connected with equal lengths of 35mm2 cable to the front of the unit via their proprietary connectors (note both batteries to have the same minimum length 35mm2 cables). My thinking is that the bus bar will also be my means of DC connecting the (future solar panels) via dedicated Victron Solar controller all chatting / monitored on the VE bus and Victron VRM. I'm still toying with the array sizing and E / S / W configuration all of which are available to me. As so often is the case in life we look for reassurance to ensure were not gonna make an expensive mistake or simply missed the obvious due to some rule / regulation were not familiar with.

Best Regards Jimbo

Split from introduce yourself

 

[johnb2713]

Hi John,

Cheers for the welcome, I look forward to learning and contributing if I can, I'll start a build thread once back onshore to hopefully help others navigate their journey.

Its certainly lacking out there for people starting from the ground up, I spent weeks researching to find the answers. Where are you working offshore? in my earlier years I was with Oceaneering and Fugro piloting ROV's on vessels and rigs.

It was your very thread I stumbled on earlier this month that led me here, I've enjoyed reading your journey and in many ways it has reassured me I was pointing in the right direction with the array of options available out there.

Absolutely, it's not impossible, the savings are huge and it works.

Back in November I took the plunge and purchased 32 x LF280K Batteries (not 16 as i mentioned in the intro) and 2 x JK-B2A20S20P BMS's with BT on Alibaba. They arrived the morning I was due to fly out to the Rig on 20-Jan-23 (Delivery lad was a star and helped me move them inside). Back when I ordered them I had planned to build a double rack assembly and mount in the garage under the workbench in a thermostatically controlled encloser.

I'd been watching Andy @ the offgrid garage on Youtube in Oz and felt comfortable with building a rack system in my garage to do my DIY Powerwall. Later I decided to invest in the Seplos Mason DIY x 2 as it looked a more eloquent solution and the BMS has support for the Victron gear on its forums. I wanted to use the Victron gear straight from the outset as I had experience in setting up offgrid camping and solar setups in caravans when we lived in Oz, the gear is expensive but 1st class in build quality & support and recognised the world over for operating in tough conditions flawlessly.

Victron gear is great and there are good support forums for it, a German guy logged into my inverter remotely just to give it the once over and he confirmed everything looked good. I have made a few changes since then but it's all working well.

There will be bus bars and M6 rod in the boxes with the batteries and also provided with the Seplos DIY kit. I'm a wee bit nervous I strip the top connectors on the Batteries and was considering investing in a suitable torque wrench. I prefer your suggestion of plain and spring washers to ensure a good contact. Also i suspect the batteries I've purchased have a single M6 threaded connector on the top of the battery from the spec sheet they sent through.

The battery spec says 4Nm torque on the terminals, it was nowhere near enough with the nuts supplied (they have a built in friction type flange). As stated replacing them with M6 plain nut / plain washer and spring washer was much better. Looking up mechanical data of threads and materials, 11 Nm was the max torque, I tightened mine to 7Nm and have monitored the terminal temperature on a regular basis, no heating = good connection.

I've taken your advise and sourced one on Amazon for £2000 at Batterie Megastore saving around £300 from the other UK supplier I had initially considered, good call m8.

This place has some incredibly low prices
https://www.zerohomebills.com/produ...i-48-5000-70-50-5kw-48v-inverter-and-charger/

As I'm planning on storing the system in the garage is there any issue regarding a minimum distance between the meter box where the distribution board (I'm assuming the CT clamp is installed near the distribution panel where power comes into the house so as to sense potential import / export) I recon there will be approximately 15m cable routing. Note the garage is seperate from the main property by 1.5m with service conduit up thru the floor feeding power and water etc.

This was an area of research, my inverter and batteries are 15 metres from the meter cabinet. Victron do a CT with a 5 metre lead, they say thats the maximum. I was going to use a power meter which has no limitation on distance but I'm told is less responsive in terms of control. I stayed with the CT clamp but extended the lead using good quality screened twisted pair cable. Looking at the signal on a scope it's clean, no noise so all good.

This is the cable I used, the outer screen is earthed at the inverter end.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373002363583

This leads me onto another question as the AC feed into the garage has a small distribution panel with a breakers / RCD running 2 x 13 amp double wall sockets and the lights. I've not physically verified the cable specs running to garage only the main breaker size 30A in the House consumer unit.

I do not feel the present wiring configuration is suitable to connect the Victron inverter to the consumer unit and will require cable sizing verification / upgrading and increased breaker sizing in the consumer unit (potentially a new consumer unit in the house as all breaker spaces are occupied). Now whilst I'm candidly discussing such matters be reassured this is not my area of expertise nor will I be undertaking the connection or disconnection of such devises. Whilst I'm happy to run cables to both ends under the floor space and drill holes and mount boxes etc the termination in and out will fall to a certified Electrician not me! However, I do wish to understand the sizing & termination process so i can better plan / source the right peeps to come do the work.

I ran a separate cable to a consumer unit in my little shed. Wiring between the CU and the inverter is 10nn Twin and Earth with a 50 amp MCB Type D.

I have read on a few forums to be very careful regarding sourcing the cabling (from china mainly) used to connect DC cables due to inferior material being used in construction (copper coated aluminium etc) who did you use on E-bay?

Mine are solid copper, insulation that seems very good, tough but easy to work with, cable very flexible.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142796139227?var=441802778485

An oversight on the Seplos Mason IMO is the lack of a DC breaker switch within the unit front panel to allow complete isolation from the DC bus / invertor TBH. Since i'm using 2 x Seplos Mason units I was considering joining them via a dedicated Victron Bus bar / shunt with 150 amp fuses on + & - and connect each battery with a dedicated isolation switch. Thereafter, from the DC switch each battery is connected with equal lengths of 35mm2 cable to the front of the unit via their proprietary connectors (note both batteries to have the same minimum length 35mm2 cables). My thinking is that the bus bar will also be my means of DC connecting the (future solar panels) via dedicated Victron Solar controller all chatting / monitored on the VE bus and Victron VRM. I'm still toying with the array sizing and E / S / W configuration all of which are available to me. As so often is the case in life we look for reassurance to ensure were not gonna make an expensive mistake or simply missed the obvious due to some rule / regulation were not familiar with.

That all sounds like a good plan.

Do you have some form of off peak tariff? I currently use Octopus GO which gives 4 hrs at 7.5p kWh. The 4 hours is just enough to recharge the battery from flat. You may need to consider an additional charger or better still a second inverter depending on your usage.

 

[johnb2713]

Further to the above, Ive received a message of warning about zerohomebills.com, it is apparently a scam site.

https://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/zerohomebills.com

 

[Jimbo_100]

Its certainly lacking out there for people starting from the ground up, I spent weeks researching to find the answers. Where are you working offshore? in my earlier years I was with Oceaneering and Fugro piloting ROV's on vessels and rigs.


Absolutely, it's not impossible, the savings are huge and it works.


Victron gear is great and there are good support forums for it, a German guy logged into my inverter remotely just to give it the once over and he confirmed everything looked good. I have made a few changes since then but it's all working well.


The battery spec says 4Nm torque on the terminals, it was nowhere near enough with the nuts supplied (they have a built in friction type flange). As stated replacing them with M6 plain nut / plain washer and spring washer was much better. Looking up mechanical data of threads and materials, 11 Nm was the max torque, I tightened mine to 7Nm and have monitored the terminal temperature on a regular basis, no heating = good connection.


This place has some incredibly low prices
https://www.zerohomebills.com/produ...i-48-5000-70-50-5kw-48v-inverter-and-charger/

This was an area of research, my inverter and batteries are 15 metres from the meter cabinet. Victron do a CT with a 5 metre lead, they say thats the maximum. I was going to use a power meter which has no limitation on distance but I'm told is less responsive in terms of control. I stayed with the CT clamp but extended the lead using good quality screened twisted pair cable. Looking at the signal on a scope it's clean, no noise so all good.

This is the cable I used, the outer screen is earthed at the inverter end.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373002363583

I ran a separate cable to a consumer unit in my little shed. Wiring between the CU and the inverter is 10nn Twin and Earth with a 50 amp MCB Type D.


Mine are solid copper, insulation that seems very good, tough but easy to work with, cable very flexible.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142796139227?var=441802778485

That all sounds like a good plan.

Do you have some form of off peak tariff? I currently use Octopus GO which gives 4 hrs at 7.5p kWh. The 4 hours is just enough to recharge the battery from flat. You may need to consider an additional charger or better still a second inverter depending on your usage.

Its certainly lacking out there for people starting from the ground up, I spent weeks researching to find the answers. Where are you working offshore? in my earlier years I was with Oceaneering and Fugro piloting ROV's on vessels and rigs.

John,

You scored my dream job that encapsulated everything i studied (Mechatronics), alas it was not to be and I ended up working with Baker Hughes doing "Wireline" initially in the lab fixing downhole tools then out in the field running the gear. Since coming back to the UK in 2019 I've branched out into fiber Optics and run fibre into wellbores with these guys https://www.well-sense.co.uk/ its kinda new and every job is a learning curve which I enjoy, presently on the Magnus Platform 100 miles NE of Shetland (great weather) sitting in the mud logging cabin with a dedicated internet line in a lovely air conditioned wee office (for the equipment you understand)

This place has some incredibly low prices
https://www.zerohomebills.com/produ...i-48-5000-70-50-5kw-48v-inverter-and-charger/

I nearly purchased from these guys and was blown away with their extensive stock and prices until i did a quick verification check to see how others rated them just before i pulled the trigger and placed the order, not good reading I'm afraid! https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/0bills.com and https://www.briandorey.com/post/solar-panel-supplier-0bills-scammed-me

Do you have some form of off peak tariff? I currently use Octopus GO which gives 4 hrs at 7.5p kWh. The 4 hours is just enough to recharge the battery from flat. You may need to consider an additional charger or better still a second inverter depending on your usage.

I've been with Octopus since 2019 and recently had the Smart meter fitted at our property, we also purchased a used PHEV Audi A3 Etron 2017 last week with the intention of submitting an application to join the Octopus GO tariff. Test drove the E-Golf & the Newer Nissan Leaf.............Missus said it didn't drive like her old 2010 A6 3.0 TDi Allroad so we went for the PHEV instead. I believe the present offering on the GO tariff is 4 hours at 12.5p kWh which is still a considerable saving on the 32p kWh were currently paying. I've been holding off on swapping over till I get the batteries and inverter setup and commissioned.

The Multiplus II 48/5000/70-50 inverter is ideal for a single 48 V - 280 Ah battery as yours on the 4 hour tariff. I sized the battery initially as a function of my usage, typically 15-18 kWh / day in winter, 12 - 15 kWh in summer (2 x teenage girls and hair dryers etc). The solar array if sized correctly has the potential to charge both batteries during a sunny day (best case scenario). However, worst case scenario is winter whereby a second charger / inverter will be required to make use of the 4 hour window. I feel 2 x inverters will be required not only to charge the batteries but also to accommodate the peak usage when toasters / kettles / washing machines all seem to be on together (system has to cope with this unruly usage pattern as that's life with kids) otherwise i'll be paying 40p kWh during these peak useage times. However, from my observations the house ticks over at 200-350 watts/hr.

I was wondering if having the second Multiplus II 48/5000/70-50 would potentially make my DNO application more difficult given the potential to place greater than 16 A onto the grid?

Regards Jimbo

 

[johnb2713]

John,

You scored my dream job that encapsulated everything i studied (Mechatronics), alas it was not to be and I ended up working with Baker Hughes doing "Wireline" initially in the lab fixing downhole tools then out in the field running the gear. Since coming back to the UK in 2019 I've branched out into fiber Optics and run fibre into wellbores with these guys https://www.well-sense.co.uk/ its kinda new and every job is a learning curve which I enjoy, presently on the Magnus Platform 100 miles NE of Shetland (great weather) sitting in the mud logging cabin with a dedicated internet line in a lovely air conditioned wee office (for the equipment you understand)

Me at work

I nearly purchased from these guys and was blown away with their extensive stock and prices until i did a quick verification check to see how others rated them just before i pulled the trigger and placed the order, not good reading I'm afraid! https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/0bills.com and https://www.briandorey.com/post/solar-panel-supplier-0bills-scammed-me

Cant be too careful.

I've been with Octopus since 2019 and recently had the Smart meter fitted at our property, we also purchased a used PHEV Audi A3 Etron 2017 last week with the intention of submitting an application to join the Octopus GO tariff.

Have a look at Utilita, my Octopus GO expires at the end of March and the off peak will go up from 7.5p to 12.5p, Utilita have an off peak of 5.33p and no standing charge.

Test drove the E-Golf & the Newer Nissan Leaf.............Missus said it didn't drive like her old 2010 A6 3.0 TDi Allroad so we went for the PHEV instead. I believe the present offering on the GO tariff is 4 hours at 12.5p kWh which is still a considerable saving on the 32p kWh were currently paying. I've been holding off on swapping over till I get the batteries and inverter setup and commissioned.

No reason to hold off the change, go for it. We run an Outlander PHEV and I have a BMW i3, both hit GO every night LOL

The Multiplus II 48/5000/70-50 inverter is ideal for a single 48 V - 280 Ah battery as yours on the 4 hour tariff. I sized the battery initially as a function of my usage, typically 15-18 kWh / day in winter, 12 - 15 kWh in summer (2 x teenage girls and hair dryers etc). The solar array if sized correctly has the potential to charge both batteries during a sunny day (best case scenario). However, worst case scenario is winter whereby a second charger / inverter will be required to make use of the 4 hour window. I feel 2 x inverters will be required not only to charge the batteries but also to accommodate the peak usage when toasters / kettles / washing machines all seem to be on together (system has to cope with this unruly usage pattern as that's life with kids) otherwise i'll be paying 40p kWh during these peak useage times. However, from my observations the house ticks over at 200-350 watts/hr.

Youre spot on there, the multiplus really does have a lot of grunt to it though, mine has sat there supply 8.5kW without complaint for 10 - 15 minutes. 2 inverters would be an easy job with Victron, comms cable between them job done.

I was wondering if having the second Multiplus II 48/5000/70-50 would potentially make my DNO application more difficult given the potential to place greater than 16 A onto the grid?

Regards Jimbo

I contacted them and it was no problem, I had my house supply uprated to 100 amp (they changed the fuse) and that was it. On a regular basis I do max out my incoming supply at 98 amps.

J

 

[Ronski]

Last year when I ordered my kit I was going to use Zero Home Bills, it was the fact that I couldn't pay via credit card that set alarm bells ringing, then I searched for reviews and all was revealed.

 

[Chrisbee]

I nearly purchased from these guys and was blown away with their extensive stock and prices until i did a quick verification check to see how others rated them just before i pulled the trigger and placed the order, not good reading I'm afraid! https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/0bills.com and https://www.briandorey.com/post/solar-panel-supplier-0bills-scammed-me

Many thanks for this, it may have just saved me an expensive mistake.

Can anyone suggest a supplier for 4 JA Solar 455W panels to extend my existing system? Ideally that I could collect from to save any large delivery costs. Within reach of the Midlands area.

 

[Jimbo_100]

Many thanks for this, it may have just saved me an expensive mistake.

Can anyone suggest a supplier for 4 JA Solar 455W panels to extend my existing system? Ideally that I could collect from to save any large delivery costs. Within reach of the Midlands area.

Chrisbee.

Check out these guys I've been looking at as a potential source for my inverter https://www.itstechnologies.shop/..........they came up good as a supplier on Trustpilot https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/itstechnologies.shop ( some negatives mainly regarding delivery times from the brief look i had)

 

[Chrisbee]

Thanks Jimbo. That looked a pretty good option untill I spotted the minimum order qty of 6 panels.

Best new option I've found so far is tradesparky.com but they have a delivery charge of £150+vat (for up to 50 panels).

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread. Sorry.

 

[binky]

Thanks Jimbo. That looked a pretty good option untill I spotted the minimum order qty of 6 panels.

Best new option I've found so far is tradesparky.com but they have a delivery charge of £150+vat (for up to 50 panels).

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread. Sorry.

Try electrical wholesalers to save delivery costs.

 

[Chrisbee]

Thanks @binky I'll make some enqiries