Any one got a

[a1]

You will find it is OUR forum, Sir.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

but wrong/stoopid/misinformed advice is worse than NO advice/or comment at all. YER A BIT LIKE NOT USING BLUE SLEEVING ON THE BLACK CONDUCTOR FOR THE NEUTRAL IN THREE CORE still waiting for the regs page to confirm this CJS

Just to answer this one point... although its not actually part of this thread

(apologies to thems what not interestedBlushing:x)

I think you require appendix 7.

page 342.

table 7A..

old.....................................new

colour / marking - - - - marking / colour

RED...........L1...............L1.........BROWN

YELLOW.....L2...............L2.........BLACK

BLUE.........L3...............L3.........GREY

BLACK........N................N..........BLUE

GRN/YEL..............................GRN/YEL

AND

part of 514.3 identification of conductors

Table 51, page 92.

Which identifies Black as the L2 conductor,

and by general convention where switched live & neutrals are used..

L1 is perm live, L2 is switched live, L3 is neutral...

as we always did with the RYB colours!

IMHO ...

This would be the standard accepted guidance for Good workmanship..

maintain compatibility between single phase / three phase..

letter designations L1,L2,L3 etc...

to avoid confusion of swapping functions of L2 & L3 between installations!

or for those who prefer pictures... :|

pocket guide3 three phase

pocket guide4 single phase

Flat 3-core+E

SWA

extractor fan with switched live

general guidance

 

[Apache]

You will find it is OUR forum, Sir.

:^O :x :^O :|

 

[seajayess]

I use Black marked Blue in three core but in an earlier thread this was condemned and was told to use Grey marked Blue by some rag and bone man CJS

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I use Black marked Blue in three core but in an earlier thread this was condemned and was told to use Grey marked Blue by some rag and bone man CJS

so you don't follow any of the recommended guidance notes etc.. or tables in BS7671.. identified in post#22?

If you are saying...? (L1/Brown)=Live, (L2/Black)=Neutral, (L3/Grey)=Earth or Switched live.

with the old colours did you use....? (L1/Red)=Live, (L2/Yellow)=Neutral, (L3/Blue)=Earth or Switched live.

Personally I used.... (L2/Yellow)=Earth or Switched live, & (L3/Blue)=Neutral!

And still do.... (L2/Black)=Earth or Switched live, (L3/Grey)=Neutral.

For some reason you seem to be changing the L1, L2, L3 conductors identifications around?

and the regs do state which conductors are L1 L2 & L3? Table 51 & appendix 7.

Spose if you are pickin and swapping your L1....L3 colours..

and just relying on sleeving?

you could use brown sleeved blue? as it is just as logical as black sleeved blue?

 

[Apache]

It't can't be safe picking and choosing your colours. If you decided to wire everything up in reverse it would be a pain for the next spark

 

[Apache]

Actually if you reversed the L N on everything it couldn't matter?

 

[seajayess]

Its just how the company i work for mark them lets face it you mark blue with brown sleeving on a loop plate CJS

 

[batty]

Just to answer this one point... although its not actually part of this thread(apologies to thems what not interestedBlushing:x)

I think you require appendix 7.

page 342.

table 7A..

old.....................................new

colour / marking - - - - marking / colour

RED...........L1...............L1.........BROWN

YELLOW.....L2...............L2.........BLACK

BLUE.........L3...............L3.........GREY

BLACK........N................N..........BLUE

GRN/YEL..............................GRN/YEL

Just to answer this one point... although its not actually part of this thread(apologies to thems what not interestedBlushing:x)

I think you require appendix 7.

page 342.

table 7A..

old.....................................new

colour / marking - - - - marking / colour

RED...........L1...............L1.........BROWN

YELLOW.....L2...............L2.........BLACK

BLUE.........L3...............L3.........GREY

BLACK........N................N..........BLUE

GRN/YEL..............................GRN/YEL

i'm a little confused here that general guidance has an armoured cable with the black as neutral and grey as cpc. is that right.

Batty

?:|

 

[Apache]

You're right there Mr Batty - both can't be correct?

(why dont they make SWA brown, blue, Y/G then you can sleve for other uses)?

 

[Apache]

I made you chaps a collage

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

i'm a little confused here that general guidance has an armoured cable with the black as neutral and grey as cpc. is that right.Batty

?:|

Yes! but that particular item was referring to flex used a cable.. not specifically colour identification However it does show why various sparks can start working to different standards!! :|

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that there are some illustrations showing black as 'N'.... which is where to confusion comes in! X(

Wot chance do you have when different guidance shown!!

But I take it as the BLACK is L2 not L3. (grey is L3)

all as per the guidance in the regs..

IDENTIFICATION OF CONDUCTORS..

BS7671 17th edition (red book) Page 92.. Table 51.

AND the previous book!

BS7671 16th edition (brown book) page 87.. Table 51.

Or to look at it another way..

get a piece of flat PVC 3-core & earth..

If using a conductor as neutral it would generally be the conductor on its own..

opposite side of the CPC from live & switched live..

Brown & Black are side by side then the CPC then the Grey.

thus..

GREY = NEUTRAL! NOT switched live

IMO.. to maintain constant across other cables...

when used on single phase.. more things point toward

BROWN=LIVE

BLACK=SWITCHED LIVE / EARTH

GREY=NEUTRAL

 

[kme]

I feel a BUT! moment coming on.......

SL - as always, I agree with & accept everything you`ve posted above (gullible, I know), however:

As I posted last time, on this topic.

We must also consider the other use of 3+E; i.e. interconnected smokies. The advice from BS5839 "specialists" is to use the grey as interconnect, which, by definition, leaves black & grey.

I "sort of" understand the idea behind (trying to) not have black as neutral anymore; but, in any property more than 3 years old, that is exactly what it is!!!!

Again, as I`ve previously stated, I will not use the cores in different colour configurations, for different BS regs, within the same property.

AFAIAC: If the cable is correctly sleeved at both terminations, you can use ANY core for ANY use, as long as you adhere to the same usage throughout. If you want grey(sleeved brown) as phase, Brown (sleeved white) as interconnect / switched live / L2 / whatever, and Black (sleeved blue) as neutral, then you do that.

My opinion (ready to be shot down at will)

KME

 

[Apache]

Again, as I`ve previously stated, I will not use the cores in different colour configurations, for different BS regs, within the same property.

That seems common sense! Could be nasty if you didn't know...

 

[batty]

I'm with you on this one Martyn. We should not forget in previous editions of the regs Black was used as an earth conductor. As long as cores are sleeved with the appropriate colour use the colour you are happy with.

Batty

 

[kme]

Aye, but, as spec. posted:

BS7671 (wiring reg) suggests black NOT used as Neutral

BS5839 (smokie reg) suggests black IS used as Neutral

What is the answer?

Use both? Not me!

Use neither? Makes a little more sense!

Adopt one, and stick to it.

Best result possible ( different from "best possible result"!)

KME

 

[kme]

I'm with you on this one Martyn. We should not forget in previous editions of the regs Black was used as an earth conductor. As long as cores are sleeved with the appropriate colour use the colour you are happy with.Batty

Agreed 100% mate.

There is no "wrong" in this one.

Steptoe is not wrong, anymore than CJS is wrong, or SL, or me

As long as you could stand in a courtroom, and justify your actions, you`re fine (AFAIAC), and I`m not a barrister:^OGuiness Drink

`scuse me. I need a beer ( and a ciggie!)