approved or full scope

[Smilers]

Hi i had my assessment for NAPIT a few weeks ago and i have finally got all my gubins through from them joining pack etc- i passed the full scope assessment but the paperwork states that i have to use the NAPIT Electrical signage NOT the approved contractor stuff- is this because i don't have the 2391? They sent me all approved contractor signage as well which seems a bit silly. Thanks in advance

 

[Smilers]

Yeah thats what i thought but the van stickers they sent me show Approved contractor - Electrical - Part P approved, then on the paperwork it says please use the logo printed above which is (ELECTRICAL) are you with NAPIT boatboy?

 

[Smilers]

No I can't see your logo on my iPad- have you not stickered up your van then? Just got this iPad and the iPhone app for this forum is a bit annoying any ideas when the IPad apps going to be ready ?

 

[Smilers]

Yeah the app is just really pixelated on the pad but looks really good on the 4s - I will give Napit a call next week to clarify I assumed that it's was because of no 2391 hey ho

 

[Smilers]

What changes the 2391? It's changing to the 2395? You mean ? I'm interested to see the prices on that when my local training guys get the course designed and ready for role out.

 

[Evans Electric]

I think in the context of Part P assessors , full and limited scope means Full part P domestic work or Limited to kitchen /bathroom fitters.

Full scope with the NICEIC is a different thing , Domestic and Commecial/Industrial.

Would you be a Sparks or a kitchen fitter , Smiley ?

 

[NozSpark]

The NICEIC have 3 different levels of membership

Approved contractor

Domestic installer - full scope - for full time domestic sparks

Domestic installer - defined scope - for kitchen fitters, plumbers etc. the work that they can do is limited to that which is necessary to complete their primary job function

 

[Smilers]

I'm a sparks Evans, full scope with Napit so I believe covers everything domestic, commercial and industrial & PIR/EICR's etc I had been under the impression that Napits full scope was the same classification as NiC's approved contractor. I don't think Napit have a higher membership level! I thought they had 2 membership levels defined scope = NiC's Domestic installer & Full scope = NiC's approved contractor. Does anybody know any different ? What are elecsa's membership levels??

 

[jameseye12]

As I understand it Elesca used to have both full and defined scope, full scope being for full time sparks and defined scope for kitchen fitters and heating engineers etc.

However, back in september when I booked my assessment with them, I asked to make sure I would be full scope, and I was told that they now only had full scope.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks Jameseye , I didn't know how ELECSA did it TBH.

But going back to Smiley's post, as far as I know , an ELECSA/NAPPIT /ECA full scope means full scope for domestic work only ,as Part P doesn't apply to Commercial/Industrial .

I had a problem with the insurers of a regular customer , print works where we have , over the last 18 years, replaced/ upgraded 95% of their electrics but when they demanded a PIR would not accept one from us ,only NICEIC .

I had to get ELECSA to contact them and point out that (a) We had installed virtually everything anyway and (B) ELECSA is actually the ECA .

They seemed happy with that .

Edit :- Just looked at earlier ELECSA cert. 2006 refers to Scheme A . After that it doesn't appear again .

The only bodies covering Industrial/Commercial are NICEIC and the ECA or you are a competent person belonging to nothing.

 

[lkayelectrical]

Noticed few insurance company's only do niceic as well

Really should check what I am should be approved never even thought about checking!

 

[Smilers]

Ok I've read the Napit description of a full scope member again and it's as you said Evans- I had been under the impression that industrial and commercial were not really governed by anybody as long as the competent person adheres to eawr & hse ? I have been asked to carry out a PIR on a warehouse/ office building they have not requested NIC etc could I be in a sticky situation if I take the job ? I don't see why I should be since I'm competent to do so.

 

[Evans Electric]

I had the same problem and didn't want to carry out the PIR then find their insurers would not accept it , sure enough as said, NICEIC only until they accepted us as ECA.

If the insurers don't stipulate I don't see a problem , as you say you're competent.

 

[batty]

This NICEIC thing is funny i did three new houses about ten years ago. Been back to one a few times to do a few extra works but the lady was moving out and renting the house out and estate agents said they wanted an NICEIC contractor to certificate property a PIR. Now i am not NICEIC registered so they would not accept my certificates. I don't like doing PIR's so this didn't bother me. Its strange you can do the work and certificate it in the first place but not come back ten years later and do a PIR on your work.

 

[Sidewinder]

As I understand it, it is illegal for a Public body to specify a certain "scam" as long as those "scams" are equal.

As far as private companies, including insurers go they can require anything they like.

I could offer work at

 

[Evans Electric]

I had a similar one to Batts with the neighbouring council of Solihull , wouldn't accept ELECSA cert for a shower , again had to get ELECSA to contact them .

 

[ktguk]

looks like i'll be switching to AC next time, i mean i have had no problems so far with elecsa doing commercial/industrial work (can prove im competent with 2391-10 and an NVQ with industrial stuff as well as just about every other C&G cert)

but then again I don

 

[steptoe]

Say you have work in a female nudist colony, would requiring female electricians be discriminatory

Deke, can I borrow some of your weekend clothes?

how much you paying sidey?

Im not going lower than

 

[apprentice87]

Hi all,

"Say you have work in a female nudist colony, would requiring female electricians be discriminatory"

Unfortunately, under the terms of the sex discrimination act s.35 (1)©

"Services may be restricted to one sex if the users are likely to suffer 'serious embarrassment' at the presence of a member of the opposite sex or the users are likely to be in a state of undress and the users my reasonably object to the presence of the opposite sex. This exception may for example apply to sauna facilities. Some service providers have identified a need to provide women-only sport sessions such as swimming or badminton. This would be unlawful unless the provider could prove that mixed groups would cause serious embarrassment to the user(s)"

Even more unfortunately;

Physical contact - s.35 (2)

"It is permissible to restrict facilities to one sex if physical contact between the user and another person is likely and the other person might reasonably object if the user were of the opposite sex. For example, this exception may apply to self -defence classes"

Soooo, afraid there is not much chance of being called out to rewire any electrical equipment at "all female" nudist colonies.....

Oh well, there goes another good marketing idea "Acme Electricians" nudist colonies a speciality!!!!!!!!

john....