Bathroom mirror question from an oldtimer

[Manni]

retired electrician here so apologies if this is obvious to you folks currently working but my grand daughter has bought a bathroom mirror cabinet that lights up with leds.

Problem is its USB powered, it has a female type 2 plug on the back of it.

How can I get a 5v usb supply to the back of a mirror in a bathroom?

I was intending to install a >2.25m high single socket RCD plate (older Wylex System without RCD on the board) and run the cable done the cavity to the back of the mirror but I don't know how to get 5v supply from there. I looked at LED drivers but they all seem to be 12V and higher.


Again, apologies if this is a stupid question, I'm a bit out of touch with the newer stuff.
Thanks in advance

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

There are lots of plug in 5v power supplies available, some with USB port, some not you could even (Google) get a USB female to male extension lead.

 

[Luckyboy]

Have you thought about getting one of these?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-modu...rc=aw.ds#product_additional_details_container
I wonder how the manufacturer expects you to have a USB outlet in your bathroom!

 

[Manni]

Have you thought about getting one of these?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-modu...rc=aw.ds#product_additional_details_container
I wonder how the manufacturer expects you to have a USB outlet in your bathroom!

I have asked the question but they're just an online seller, they don't know anything really.

I suspect the logic went as far as thinking that the lower the voltage the safer it would be but no thought as to how to connect it, unless maybe its a foreign model and usb's are more common in other countries maybe. I really don't know.

To answer your question, my understanding of the regs (outdated I know) says that I can conceal equipment in the wall, and protect it with a rcd spur point mounted higher that 2.25m, but if I have an actual socket on the wall even 5V output, its still 240V mains behind it and not ip rated. and definitely in the zones, so not permitted. (bathroom is less than 3m square)

 

[Manni]

There are lots of plug in 5v power supplies available, some with USB port, some not you could even (Google) get a USB female to male extension lead.

I don't believe the regs permit the installation of a socket in a bathroom. I was thinking maybe you could get a 5v LED driver and conceal it in the wall but couldn't find anything like that when i looked.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

You can get hard wired 5v power supplies, it would need to go into an enclosure, as they are "bare units" I have one for my LED Pixels (it came from ebay)

 

[Manni]

So maybe a single back box with a blanking plate and conceal the power supply inside that? It would need to be relatively flush to the wall to mount the cabinet over it. Also how would you convert from the USB connector to the a 5v hard-wired power supply?

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

No, it will not fit in a patress, you will have to get a plastic adaptable box (Yes, I know this one is 12v, but my 5v one is ...........inside a plastic adaptable box, not opening it for a picture)

Get a USB lead and cut the plug off, leaving the socket, and connect to the PSU

Less than £7 ebay.

 

[Manni]

View attachment 13130

No, it will not fit in a patress, you will have to get a plastic adaptable box (Yes, I know this one is 12v, but my 5v one is ...........inside a plastic adaptable box, not opening it for a picture)

Get a USB lead and cut the plug off, leaving the socket, and connect to the PSU

Less than £7 ebay.

I'll take a look thanks

Really appreciate the help.

 

[Luckyboy]

I have asked the question but they're just an online seller, they don't know anything really.

I suspect the logic went as far as thinking that the lower the voltage the safer it would be but no thought as to how to connect it, unless maybe its a foreign model and usb's are more common in other countries maybe. I really don't know.

To answer your question, my understanding of the regs (outdated I know) says that I can conceal equipment in the wall, and protect it with a rcd spur point mounted higher that 2.25m, but if I have an actual socket on the wall even 5V output, its still 240V mains behind it and not ip rated. and definitely in the zones, so not permitted. (bathroom is less than 3m square)

Don't think IP rated fittings are relevant if you are thinking to put higher than 2.25m which is not in the zones.
Unless there is a likelihood of water jets being used for cleaning purposes then wise to use IP65.
That one from Screwfix is SELV btw - just throwing an idea out... I assume the mirror unit has a switch?

 

[Manni]

Don't think IP rated fittings are relevant if you are thinking to put higher than 2.25m which is not in the zones.
Unless there is a likelihood of water jets being used for cleaning purposes then wise to use IP65.
That one from Screwfix is SELV btw - just throwing an idea out... I assume the mirror unit has a switch?

I had thought to put an RCD high up (2.25m) and then go through the cavity to a backbox behind the cabinet itself (approx 1.6m) thus hiding it and because it is a screwed on cabinet I think that counts as basic protection.

A usb face plate might work but it wouldn't fit behind the cabinet and let anything plug into it so it would have to be on show at the side or above say right on top of the sink. That didn't seem like a good idea. Maybe I'm wrong.


So if I did put one of those usb only sockets to the side or wherever fits the fact that's it's selv and that it is RCD protected, would that be within the regs.do you think?

 

[Fleeting]

An rcd spur is not considered by BS7671 as suitable for providing additional rcd protection, so no.
A USB socket outlet is not likely to have suitable electrical separation like a shaver socket, so no.

 

[Luckyboy]

An rcd spur is not considered by BS7671 as suitable for providing additional rcd protection, so no.
A USB socket outlet is not likely to have suitable electrical separation like a shaver socket, so no.

When you say suitable electrical separation, what would be suitable?

 

[Fleeting]

When you say suitable electrical separation, what would be suitable?

Well a shaver socket because it incorporates an isolating transformer and correct segregation of the mains and separated voltage. Whilst some USB outlets from the recognised brands may have this many do not if sourced from places like Amazon. You must also consider if BS7671 permits this type of outlet and whether the manufacturer suggests that it can be fitted in such a location.

 

[Luckyboy]

The one I'd suggested from SF is SELV. If Manni is thinking to put this out of Zones I wouldn't see an issue and can't find one to go against it in BS7671.
Completely agree, check with manufacturer instructions etc etc and in an ideal world get a mirror that isn't powered from a 5V USB

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Since it is for your granddaughter and you can't tell her to buy a new mirror, why not buy a power supply, suitable enclosure and put it in the the loft?

 

[Manni]

Since it is for your granddaughter and you can't tell her to buy a new mirror, why not buy a power supply, suitable enclosure and put it in the the loft?

That's starting to look like the best option, a regular plug top with usb outlets above the ceiling in the loft space, then a longish usb extension cable down the wall cavity popping out behind the mirror.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, it's much appreciated.