Bizarre Fire Alarm Instllation

[ProDave]

Today I had to fault find a non working fire alarm.

It's a a British Legion club, adjacent to a small town museum. They used to be one building which was split in two but they swear blind the fire alarm was installed after the split.

Anyway I locate the power supply box in the plant room of the museum. No mains power getting to it. Follow the wires. FP200 cable to an old MEM switch fuse, fuse okay, no power to the switch fuse. Carry on following the cable, this time through some trunking where it emerges as a bit of pyro to another MEM switch fuse. Again fuse okay no power to the switch fuse.  Keep following, it goes through a (now bypassed) mechanical time clock, and then still as pyro up through the ceiling with no access. still no power.

At this point I decide to abandon fault finding the original convoluted feed, and instead connect the fire alarm supply directly into one of the 3 Wylex consumer units right next to the alarm supply box.

So that's it power back on, alarms working.

So first observation, why did the alarm installer choose such a carp source? why didn't he just connect directly into the adjacent CU?

But the really bizarre thing is we can't find any fire alarm control panels in either building.

If you trigger any fire point with the test key, the alarm sounds in both buildings, and reset the fire point the alarm stops. They  say it's always been like that and they have never seen a control panel anywhere.

I think this is the first time I've seen a  fire alarm without a control panel.  Is this okay to leave it like that?

I don't normally do alarms, just things like this where I fix a missing supply, which apparently the alarm company were incapable of doing. If the alram does need upgrading, I'll be advising them to get an alarm company to do it (but a different one to the last company they used)

 

[Technician]

It is only a suggestion but would the control panel, if fitted,

monitor the health of the detection circuits and warn of any

sort of malfunction?

As I understand it, the health of each of the detector circuits

is monitored and will warn of a malfunction even if there is

no fire.

 

[ProDave]

Quite.

Every fire alarm I have seen, once triggered sounds the alarm until reset from the control panel.

It's almost as if a load of fire points are connected directly to a load of sounders in this case, as the alarm stops sounding when you reset the fire point.

If the alarm goes off for real, nothing to tell you where the fire is or what point has triggered it.

 

[Evans Electric]

Dave that spunds like an old fashioned 240v system  .  I had a customer with one ages ago , Gent  240v bells switched directly by the break glass and reset  or renew the glass to stop it ringing.   Very basic system with no monitoring or anything .

Others had a basic relay in a box with a reset button , sometimes 240v sometimes 24v .

We did loads of fire alarms but now insurances won't accept non specialist installers , as I'm sure you know . 

I did find the panel for a shop in London ,  shoved up in the false ceiling , still connected and working , no one knew it was there.

 

[ProDave]

No it's not a 240V system. The power supply box looks quite new and has two lead acid sealed rechargeable batteries, so almost certainly a 12V or 24V system.

Is such a system still okay though for two buildings both with public access? 

The fact that it's one system for two buildings I find strange.  I left the two respective custodians to discuss should they each have a key to the other building, and should they pay someone to split it into two separate systems.

 

[kerching]

My money?

Old 240 system that only needed operating during working hours, thus the time clock

Updated to a 24 volt system by changing break glasses and Saunders

Installer did not know it was on a timer

.....well it's a thought

 

[Evans Electric]

Its up to the owners to find out what they should have TBH  .  If its two seperate blds now , it should be a seperate system in my book , but these days its best to consult a FA specialist .

We did many installs but they were designed and comissioned by the specialist supplier.   ( Gent was one ) 

 

[ProDave]

They DID have a fire alarm company out to look at it, and they were incapable of either fixing the fault causing the lack of supply, nor (as I did) feeding it directly from an adjacent CU.

This was the same FA Co that installed the alarm and have maintained it since. Hence why I suggested they try a different FA Co.

I think Heels might be right on the history and why the time clock was there.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

 I also think it was a mains 3 wire system  thats been converted. In the good old days you never took a fire alarm supply from a consumer unit, fusebox or whatever but fitted a red switchfuse connected directly to the source.

 

[Sidewinder]

PD,

1st port of call is the FRA for each building, they also need to co-operate over the fire control precautions as it is a shared building.

Once they have this sorted, then an system designer can work from that.

 

[adammid]

Sounds like a manual system - someone spots a fire and raises the alarm. As no one sleeping there may be no need to have a system that detects the fire. Did you say if there are detectors or just sounders. Like sidewinder says check the fire Risk Assessment. Its that that dictates what type of system to install.