Blamed for a faulty freezer

[davetheglitz]

I've been accused of damaging a freezer because the RCD tripped while working on another circuit - and it was switched back on too quickly (10 secs later). Freezer now not working.

I don't believe there is any way that switching on and off at an interval of > 1s could cause any damage - but all I've got is my gut feeling and anecdotal evidence. Has anyone got a bit more!

Thanks

 

[danny7299]

i had a customer , who rang me up after i had rewired his EMPTY house and said

" when you tested the electrics , you caused are tv to stop working and its broken now we want a new one" ,

i said " there was nothing in the property when we tested so NO!!" ....

" ohh so its not your fault then ".....

" err NO!!!"

some people just try it on

just our of interest is the frezzer in a cold garage or somthing? I say this becuase we moved house 2 years agowe baught and new fridge freezer and put our fridge freezer in the cold pantry and it defrosted, and when i rang them up they said... ohh yes it would do it have to be in a room at about 5DegC ... so we now have to have a radiator to warm up the fridge, to cool the food!!!!! talk about global worming !

 

[Lurch]

It isn;t your fault, whatever has failed would have failed the next time it was switched off and on anyway. The freezer wouldn;t have lasted forever, it would have stopped working at some point, it just happened to choose the moment you cycled the power. It's one of those things that's hard to prove or disprove exactly what happened, but the customer would have to be clueless and unreasonable to pursue you for any damages.

 

[plumberjohn]

a cluless and unreasonable customer? now that would be a first!

 

[PC Electrics]

Has this client paid you for the work you were doing?

Have they put their 'complaint' in writing?

 

[binky]

I've been accused of damaging a freezer because the RCD tripped while working on another circuit - and it was switched back on too quickly (10 secs later).

So how long are you suppossed to wait??? If argument continues ask customer to justify this statement - should be able to prove they are talking out of backside. Only time to delay energising fridge or freezer is after moving around like from house to house, and that's to allow refridgerant to settle. Probably freezer that tripped RCD when it died, assumimg it wasn't already dead?

Failing that as a self-employed person you can tell them to firk off big time, pay the bill or be taken to court.

 

[Chr!s]

Some compressors struggle to start up on load, this is what will of happened in effect.

There's a run winding and a start winding, the start winding is energised through a relay or ptc.

Initially when the compressor kicks in the pressure on the high side of the piston will of equalised, if you switch it off while its running then back on again the differential between the low side and high side is too great.

The compressor has a cut out which you tend to hear as a buzz then a click.

Normally switching will not damage the compressor, though if its on its last legs you may have put the final nail in the coffin

 

[tom1]

so dave what you saying here you tripped the rcd, ran to the freezer fliped it round a couple of times maybe juggled it with a wasning machine then ran back an flicked rcd back on. and now its bust.

like lurch says it would have failed next time anyway, next power cut, next time rcd triped next time mcb is tripped or maybe next week.

 

[Apache]

So it's a bit like the lamp blowing just before you turned it off? Uncanny how these things happen........

 

[PC Electrics]

As someone else said, it was probably the freezer that tripped the RCD!

If this client mentions it again, say nothing, admit nothing and ask them to put their complaint in writing. If you do receive a letter, forward it to your insurance company along with your version of events. Let them deal with your insurance, they'll no doubt get short shrift.

 

[Andy™]

do you know if the freezer was working before the RCD tripped?

 

[davetheglitz]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies. Events have moved on. The freezer is now working - but it appears that one side of the 2G wall socket - where the freezer was plugged in - has gone down. It's the second time it's happened to me - and annoyingly both at this house - sockets (Denmans Basics) fitted less than 6 months ago. Think they must have had a faulty batch - don't know if anyone else has had the same problem?

 

[davetheglitz]

Some compressors struggle to start up on load, this is what will of happened in effect.There's a run winding and a start winding, the start winding is energised through a relay or ptc.

Initially when the compressor kicks in the pressure on the high side of the piston will of equalised, if you switch it off while its running then back on again the differential between the low side and high side is too great.

The compressor has a cut out which you tend to hear as a buzz then a click.

Normally switching will not damage the compressor, though if its on its last legs you may have put the final nail in the coffin

Thanks for that reply. Do you have any guide how long it would take for the pressure differential to return to an acceptable limit? Often I will do RCD tests with appliances plugged in - and the supply is switched on and off in fairly quick succession - so would definitely be of interest.

Cheers

Dave

​

 

[NozSpark]

Thanks for that reply. Do you have any guide how long it would take for the pressure differential to return to an acceptable limit? Often I will do RCD tests with appliances plugged in - and the supply is switched on and off in fairly quick succession - so would definitely be of interest.

Cheers

Dave

​

If you do that then I think you are asking for trouble...

RCD tests should be carried out with no loads connected and as close to the origin of the circuit as possible, so turn off all MCB's and test from busbar to earth!

 

[Sidewinder]

^+1

This prevents any cable capacitance/inductance influencing the readings.

 

[batty]

Hi All, Thanks for the replies. Events have moved on. The freezer is now working - but it appears that one side of the 2G wall socket - where the freezer was plugged in - has gone down. It's the second time it's happened to me - and annoyingly both at this house - sockets (Denmans Basics) fitted less than 6 months ago. Think they must have had a faulty batch - don't know if anyone else has had the same problem?

I stick with Contactum sockets don't have problems with them. Some of Denmans basic stuff is a bit suspect had a main switch that did not work on one of there RCBO boards and an RCBO that would not work either. They have now changed the supplier but it does put you off buying it.

 

[NozSpark]

Hi All, Thanks for the replies. Events have moved on. The freezer is now working - but it appears that one side of the 2G wall socket - where the freezer was plugged in - has gone down. It's the second time it's happened to me - and annoyingly both at this house - sockets (Denmans Basics) fitted less than 6 months ago. Think they must have had a faulty batch - don't know if anyone else has had the same problem?

I had a similar thing with some Knightsbridge sockets... utter garbage they were

I have used them once and never again, I must have been back 4 or 5 times to replace faulty ones.. TBH I felt like replacing them all

All I tend to use now are Click

 

[PC Electrics]

Hi All, Thanks for the replies. Events have moved on. The freezer is now working - but it appears that one side of the 2G wall socket - where the freezer was plugged in - has gone down. It's the second time it's happened to me - and annoyingly both at this house - sockets (Denmans Basics) fitted less than 6 months ago. Think they must have had a faulty batch - don't know if anyone else has had the same problem?

I use LeGrand for my 'budget' range (though they aren't really anywhere near as 'budget' as you can get). They have been good for me. I get them from Edmundsons.

For 'medium' quality I use GET Ultimate, again from Eds. Also Neweys slimline are GET Ulti, but slightly cheaper with the Newlec brand on them.

MK for top notch installs.

Crabtree (which i now dislike since they 'cost reduced' them) only for when the trad style needs matching.

Interestingly, I've had problems with MKs aerial & phone sockets and their CUs (broken main casings) but not with anything else. Only use MK Masterseal outdoors. Never had any probs with LeGrand or GET Ulti.

 

[davetheglitz]

If you do that then I think you are asking for trouble...RCD tests should be carried out with no loads connected and as close to the origin of the circuit as possible, so turn off all MCB's and test from busbar to earth!

Take your point - on board changes I generally do this - but minor works adding a socket I tend not to - bit of a *** to break in to the CU.

Have had issues in some cases where an RCD would not trip close to the board - but would when tested at a socket.

 

[tom1]

Take your point - on board changes I generally do this - but minor works adding a socket I tend not to - bit of a *** to break in to the CU.Have had issues in some cases where an RCD would not trip close to the board - but would when tested at a socket.

bit of a bugger explaining that to customer new rcd aint exacly cheap not mega money but pushes price of an extra socket up