Buy To Let Electrics

[OnOff]

As an electrician, you could do an EICR yourself.If you suspect that notifiable works have been carried out since 2005, then make an offer that is conditional upon the current owners taking out indemnity insurance against any remedial works being required or retrospective notification being required. Raise the issue with your solicitor and ask him to draft a letter with the correct terminology.

It is possible, though, that the new kitchen is exactly the same layout as the old and that no electrical works were carried out.

Interesting first point and something I've wondered about: I'm NOT as I've already said a scheme member but assume I would be considered competent in terms of qualifications (EAL Part P, Level 3 2330 and 2382)to carry out the testing and inspection for an EICR - I'm looking at page 11, b/1.21 in the Approved document. Anyway, I'm reading through Part P and nothing jumps out that says that doing an EICR contravenes Part P and/or is notifiable. Am I reading this correctly?

Seems a bit of a mockery IF I can take all the wires out of the OLD consumer unit, test, then put it all back in and write the certs. BUT I can't, when said wires are out fit a nice new modern CU - page 8, "Additional Notes, c.Consumer units are however notifiable".

 

[ProDave]

Anyway, I'm reading through Part P and nothing jumps out that says that doing an EICR contravenes Part P and/or is notifiable. Am I reading this correctly?

Part P is a building regulation, not a wiring regulation, and covers wiring alterations or additions in certain parts of a property.

In the process of doing an EICR you are just inspecting and testing. You are NOT making alterations so Part P has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Interesting first point and something I've wondered about: I'm NOT as I've already said a scheme member but assume I would be considered competent in terms of qualifications (EAL Part P, Level 3 2330 and 2382)to carry out the testing and inspection for an EICR - I'm looking at page 11, b/1.21 in the Approved document. Anyway, I'm reading through Part P and nothing jumps out that says that doing an EICR contravenes Part P and/or is notifiable. Am I reading this correctly? Seems a bit of a mockery IF I can take all the wires out of the OLD consumer unit, test, then put it all back in and write the certs. BUT I can't, when said wires are out fit a nice new modern CU - page 8, "Additional Notes, c.Consumer units are however notifiable".

The principal is that when replacing a CU, normally the types of protective devices are changing for every circuit, (such as 5amp 3036 to a 6amp 60898), therefore the design considerations have to be reassessed to verify they are appropriate. Whereas when doing any inspection and testing, firstly the aim is to disturb as few wires and joints as possible and the original protective devices are still the same when you leave. With regard to Part P building regulations, as it only applies to new additions and alterations from Jan 2005, the assumption that appears to have been made is that any previous work was satisfactory and does not need retrospective checks. Even though many of us know this is not often true, the inhibitive costs of implemented full retrospective checks on every domestic electrical installation leave few other viable options. As a rule of thumb it is generally recongnised within the industry that persons doing inspection and testing would typically have 2391 among their qualifications. Although the guidance only suggests the inspector has to be competent.

Doc H.

 

[Andy™]

Interesting first point and something I've wondered about: I'm NOT as I've already said a scheme member but assume I would be considered competent in terms of qualifications (EAL Part P, Level 3 2330 and 2382)to carry out the testing and inspection for an EICR - I'm looking at page 11, b/1.21 in the Approved document. Anyway, I'm reading through Part P and nothing jumps out that says that doing an EICR contravenes Part P and/or is notifiable. Am I reading this correctly? Seems a bit of a mockery IF I can take all the wires out of the OLD consumer unit, test, then put it all back in and write the certs. BUT I can't, when said wires are out fit a nice new modern CU - page 8, "Additional Notes, c.Consumer units are however notifiable".

part P applies to installtion work only. not I&T

 

[OnOff]

Well we should be picking up the keys to the new buy to let property tomorrow! I'll get in there tomorrow night hopefully and take a look at what I'm dealing with in terms of existing cu an whether they were telling porkies that no electrical work has been done in conjunction with the new kitchen and bathroom! Then get it safe & all ready for new tenants ASAP! Will post up some pics.

 

[OnOff]

Well got the keys tonight and managed a brief look at the new place, wife & kids in tow so more a cursory "get a feel" for what I've got to do. Lots of little bits. Where to start.......

Access to the cu is a lie down job under the stairs:

Earth block:

Looks like the main bonding on the water gave way for the new floor (yet to fine the gas bond):

The cu with re-wireable 3036's:

Inside, got to trace what goes where:

N tail exposed at the head fuse:

My favourite bit, the kitchen. We were showed round when the place was full of stuff by their mother in law, who said and I quote, on the lines of: "My husband's a kitchen fitter, he's made a lovely job of the kitchen!". To be fair, at first glance he has. Let's take of some nice chromed fronts; no sleeving, no grommets, over length M3.5s, cable zone issues I think. Add in fitted cupboards with pi$$ poor access, and he's made a terrific job of cutting access holes too!

Then we move upstairs! Pretty much every socket is a single and loose with one or two screws stripped. Did find a super, hard wired T&E extension lead they had made up which was hidden behind wardrobes etc. For some reason they've stuck masking tape over the front but the back is exposed to little fingers. Still it's not as though they had twin kids under a year running round!

And the best bit is I told the missus to go back and query the "no wiring done since 2005" they wrote on the search papers. Would she? Nope, was worried they would pull out of the sale!

Should keep me busy!

 

[NozSpark]

That one of the kitchen socket,,,, is that 1.5mm in there??????

 

[steptoe]

mmmm,

Im not 100% on this, but even after you purchase couldnt you have them on either mis-representation, of will-full fraud? its got to be not fit for purpose at the very least?

I know house sales are different to a lot of other things, but if they have specifically stated

no wiring done since 2005

I think you could have some leverage there,if it was me I'd at least threaten them with a solicitors letter, see how cocky they feel then,!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:18 ----------

That one of the kitchen socket,,,, is that 1.5mm in there??????

twin brown?

 

[OnOff]

That one of the kitchen socket,,,, is that 1.5mm in there??????

You mean photo 2868? What looks like twin brown with the brown in the neutral? As I said loads of fun!

 

[NozSpark]

twin brown?

I think you're right there:O

 

[OnOff]

I think you're right there:O

Lets hope it's in ducting then! Seems a pity to rip off those new tiles!

 

[danmoriarty]

When ever I pick up a new buy to let I just have a quick look around and work out what I need to spend, usually about 5-8,000. I rip everything out regardless of condition, recycle anything useful (rads, showers, kitchen units etc). Take it back to its bare bones and start again. I then know that after I've fitted the house out everything is in perfect condition for the next 20years atleast, everything up to specification and all certificates in place. All shiny.

Hope you get some nice tenants

 

[Nicky Tesla]

So lets see, you can do electric work without being registered and nobody even bothered except electricians that you are not registered, and you can sell or buy a house without any certs etc.

So what is Part P all about again? :C

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Solicitors have to ask about the electrics, windows etc, so the cowboys now know to say nothings been done for years & years so no need for paperwork.

Some old customers asked me to carry out an inspection of a house after the surveyors report noted possible electrical problems. Cut the story short the place needed rewiring at around

 

[steptoe]

remember though, the way I see it just now, its deffo a buyers market.

 

[danmoriarty]

If anyone is out shopping for a new investment property Dublin is the place to look

http://touch.daft.ie/report/

http://www.allsop.co.uk/283/irish-auctions

Just spent 2 days there looking myself. Massive property collapse in Ireland brought on by there being a flood of housing stock so everything is nice and cheap.

Fun fact: All windmills in Ireland turn in a clockwise direction, while the rest of the windmills in the world turn counter-clockwise.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

remember though, the way I see it just now, its deffo a buyers market.

No, i dont remember the way you saw it :innocent ,

I do see what you mean though and thats right it is a buyers market right now.

 

[OnOff]

Was tired last night after a 4am start yesterday morning, so post in haste and all that!. Thinking back on that twin brown and it's PROBABLY feeding the under cupboard lighting though I will be starting to trace it all tonight. IF that's the case I'm thinking to replace the twin brown with 2.5mm sq to an FCU then feed the under cupboard lighting from there. Of course got to found out whether things are rings/radial etc, etc. Wondering what that 15A fuse is feeding NOW as there's not an immersion fitted now - combi boiler instead! Of course, I'm assuming that the fuses all have the correct sized wire in them! So, point by point survey tonight for me!

 

[Steve3948]

Solicitors have to ask about the electrics, windows etc, so the cowboys now know to say nothings been done for years & years so no need for paperwork.Some old customers asked me to carry out an inspection of a house after the surveyors report noted possible electrical problems. Cut the story short the place needed rewiring at around

 

[danmoriarty]

IMO the quality of the house has little to no influence on its price (assuming its fairly well kept and not falling down). It maybe cliche but, location location location. In any house i have purchased i have never asked for any form of certification for anything, and i only perform minor searches to ensure its not built on a mine.It is my own responsibly (and that of who ever is buying a property) to look at the condition of the building when i put an offer in, and that offer will reflect how i feel about it and what work i believe may need doing. if it needs loads of work i just knock loads off my offer