Changing a floodlight - not sure how to connect it, has 3 core & earth

[danielb1994]

I am changing a PIR floodlight that is broken for a 'Parkhurst 400W Security Floodlight' from B&Q. There are 3 floodlights on this circuit in total and a switch. I thought I could just connect it like for like but the there doesn't seem to be enough terminals. There is a 3 core & earth which is live, neutral, earth and black with brown sleeving that I think is the switch line and each core went in its own connecter block in the old light however on the new one there is a sticker that says 'Do Not Use' pointing to the fourth terminal that already has a red wire in it. The instructions only say how to connect up brown, blue and green/yellow but not a fourth. How can I connect it so the sensor and manual override switch work again? Thanks in advance.

Parkhurst 400W Security Floorlight, 0000005239191

 

[steptoe]

use the 'do not use' terminal, probably.

it sounds like it is the switch return from the sensor,

can you take a pic of the connections?

 

[danielb1994]

ok thanks I did try that but the light stays on whether the switch is on or off how is this possible and does it sound like the feed is coming from one of the other floodlights? Yes I have a photo of the old and new connections

the new one has the flex going into it. Thanks for your help.

 

[steptoe]

permanent live is brown, the switched live is the top connection with the 2 whites.

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sorry, my mistake, mixed up the pics, yes, the switched live should go into the terminal with the red,

are you sure the black is the switched live?

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oh, remember to leave it untouched for maybe 5 or ten minutes after you power up to let the sensor adjust,

set everything to minimum before you start, when you first apply power it will go through a test cycle of sorts.

 

[danielb1994]

The light that has the two whites in one block is the old one this is the new one View attachment 4162

so would the switched live (black with brown sleeving) go in with the red even though it says do not use?

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ok great I will try that and I'm not sure whether the black is definitely the switch line, to find out I took both brown and black out and left the blue neutral in. I tested between black and blue while someone switched the switch on and off for me but it stayed live I done the same for the brown and blue neutral and when switched also stayed live which really confused me. I looked in the back of the switch and it was a 2 brown core cable so I assumed the power supply from the CU must go to another one of the floodlights and then the switch line dropped from that and the other 2 lights fed by a 3 core and earth from light to light?

 

[steptoe]

its the same scenario,

once you disconnect the power to the lights they will take anything between 30 seconds and maybe half an hour [depending on the timer settings] to self adjust and switch off again,

is there only one switch for all the floodlights?

once you re-apply power you will have to wait for the other lights to turn off before testing for live, keep the switch turned off.

 

[danielb1994]

I did notice a test setting for timing and brightness I think this leaves the light on for 1 minute I could try that.

Yes there is only one switch that my auntie said done all three lights.

Oh I see so if the other 2 lights are on because they have detected motion this will make the switch line and perm live, live at the light I am changing so if I wait for the two other lights to turn off and the switch is turned off the switch line at the light I'm changing will be dead when I test it? cheers.

 

[gavindrummond]

Although its a cheap model it's not a good pir light as with power failure once reenergised it stays on perm. Take it back and get your self a different one.

 

[ProDave]

Interesting scenario this.

Firstly I would disconnect the brown and the black from the light and test which one is the switched live. Until you have done that, you will never be certain.

Once you know ehich is which re connect them.

But the "do not use" terminal raises an interesting problem. Wiring regs say you must install in accordance with manufacturers instructions. So to comply with that, you must not use this terminal and hence must not have an ovveride facility.

Now you can argue that point, as many do. but one thing is certain, if you have used that terminal and the light fails, they almost certainly won't honour any guarantee.

So personally I would change it for a different light fitting and proceed from there.

 

[lineman]

I used the "do not use" terminal in one of these once. Within 30mins of installing, the thing was pouring out smoke. Was mounted on a wooden clad exterior wall too. Lucky I was still on site doing the paperwork. Could have been a faulty light but scared the crap out of me. Took it back and got a different model.

 

[septiclecky]

Might be a bit clearer if you can tell us which connections go to the lamp and which go to the sensor as with your flex connected it looks a bit off a rats nest.

 

[danielb1994]

Ok thanks I'm going to take it back now and buy another one that hopefully has a usable fourth terminal for the switch line.

The instructions do say it has an override function but it says to wire it with a 2 core and earth from the light switch and says to connect live neutral and earth so I maybe the light is internally wired differently and won't work with the way this circuit is wired?

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I noticed that as well in the reviews section on the b&q site I will take it back and try one from screw fix

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Although its a cheap model it's not a good pir light as with power failure once reenergised it stays on perm. Take it back and get your self a different one.

I noticed that as well in the reviews section on the b&q site I will take it back and try one from screw fix

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Years ago it was common to interlink a number of pir floodlights together with the 3rd core which was connected to the lamp terminal (the do not use one in your case) Back then the pir's were capable of switching 2000 w. Today your lucky if the pir's are capable of switching the single lamp & are rated for just that. Thats why the 4th terminal is marked do not use. The only safe way would be to link all together through a contactor/relay or to find a pir floodlight with a switching capacity that matches or is higher than the total wattage of all your floods. Another problem is when any light goes faulty its time consuming seperating all lights untill the faulty one is found.

 

[danielb1994]

Years ago it was common to interlink a number of pir floodlights together with the 3rd core which was connected to the lamp terminal (the do not use one in your case) Back then the pir's were capable of switching 2000 w... .

The old floodlight and the other 2 are called 'Friedland Spectra Superflood L540' but I have no instructions and am not sure if these have any internal wiring differences ect.

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Might be a bit clearer if you can tell us which connections go to the lamp and which go to the sensor as with your flex connected it looks a bit off a rats nest.

The red goes to the sensor and the white also in that block goes to the light. The brown live goes to the sensor. The blue neutral goes to the sensor and the bigger white is in the block with the blue and then goes to the light.

 

[batty]

If the terminal says do not use I think I probably would not use it. Timeguard floods will switch additional loads.

 

[Steve3948]

I think the override is done by switching off then on within 2 seconds, at the light switch, so switch is used for isolation and override so no need for perm feed, hence 2 wire.

 

[danielb1994]

I got a floodlight from screwfix and installed it today, it also has a red wire in the fourth terminal and no L1 marking or mention of a switch line in the instructions but it didnt have a sticker that said 'do not use' like the b&q one did. I put the switch line in the fourth terminal and it works perfectly. It can come on my the sensor or stay on when the switch is on along with the other 2 floodlight on the circuit. Thank you to everyone that replied !!!