CIS Tax Scheme

[Evans Electric]

Thought I'd poke my screwdriver into another wasps nest and stir it up.

What do you guys think of the CIS Tax scheme ? It drives me up the wall !! I found that most domestic installers have never heard of it but wait till you work for another construction company, Bl***y nightmare !! :_|

 

[betty swollocks]

a builder i work for has always taken the 20% tax from my invoices, but recently everyone i work for have been informed they must do the same, i think its great, no big bills to pay at end of year, they have to submit paperwork every month even if i havnt done any work for them and they get a

 

[Evans Electric]

Ooooo Betty ! Know what you are saying there but its a pain when I have a couple of fellow sparks to give me a hand with bigger jobs, then I cop for all that carp too.

My objection is you have to declare your labour content to the builder for him to stop the 20%

 

[betty swollocks]

My objection is you have to declare your labour content to the builder for him to stop the 20%

true but the builders i know have been in the game a long time and know how much jobs cost and know roughly what they should be paying, and always suggest overpricing materials to ofset the labour part of an invoice, not that i'd ever think of doing that which is scandelous

 

[steptoe]

god, where are the days of SC60 gone.?

was on a SC60 on my 3rd year of apprenticeship, and been that way for a while in the UK,

what a shock I got coming back here and finding out it didnt exist anymore.!

 

[jibspark]

im a subby at the mo and cis suits me down to the ground! nice n easy and fingers crossed i should get a little of it back at the end of the year!

 

[heathelect]

new tax scheme is easy, i do work for a big electrical contractor and my own private work, they deduct 20% from each invoice, the only down side is you also have to deduct the same from any subby you employ and pay it to the inland revenue but as long as you make money out of the subby its ok, a nice big fat refund at the end of your year, its like a savings account, it may be a bit of a pain, the papework, but it works great for me.

 

[Evans Electric]

Heathelect, I'm sure you are aware of this but I've come across a few contractors, two painters in particular, who were having 20% stopped on the whole of their labour. Then the painter was stopping his subbie 20% when he paid him, thus the subbie had been paying twice but they had'nt realised.

The contract is between you and the builder and does not include the subbies for tax reasons.

 

[Evans Electric]

god, where are the days of SC60 gone.?was on a SC60 on my 3rd year of apprenticeship, and been that way for a while in the UK,

what a shock I got coming back here and finding out it didnt exist anymore.!

Blimey Steps where were you , on Mars, you missed the 714 system and the card one after that , then the CIS.

The reason it pees me off is that we are the only people in business who have to inform our customer how much the labour part of our invoice is. X(

 

[steptoe]

Blimey Steps where were you , on Mars, you missed the 714 system and the card one after that , then the CIS.The reason it pees me off is that we are the only people in business who have to inform our customer how much the labour part of our invoice is. X(

Ive got a UTR number now, whatever that is.

this is my first year of doing a tax return in the UK for a while, so I really dont know what to make of it. ?:|

 

[paulh]

For god's sake get an accountant unless you know your stuff its a nightmare.......I made the mistake of not getting one and it caused us no end of problems, for instance a massive vat bill because we should of charged from the beginning and hadn't (accountant sorted this out for us thankfully). Even if you only use one to sort out the initial problems/queries and the end of year accounts. I have an accountant on monthly accounting and its worth every penny. Its not cheap but has saved me more than it's cost.

 

[paulh]

utr Unique Tax Reference number. most peoples cis is 20% but that's not set in stone it could be higher!!!!!! beware.

 

[heathelect]

Heathelect, I'm sure you are aware of this but I've come across a few contractors, two painters in particular, who were having 20% stopped on the whole of their labour. Then the painter was stopping his subbie 20% when he paid him, thus the subbie had been paying twice but they had'nt realised.The contract is between you and the builder and does not include the subbies for tax reasons.

Thats is correct, you claim it back from the inland revenue, ive always used a good accountant to do this and my end of year tax returns.

 

[kme]

I don`t mind the system, in principle. However, the 20% they stop now, for next year`s tax bill, is sitting in someone else`s account, earning interest, when it could be sitting in mine, earning ME interest. I wonder if they`ll pay an interest component???

As regards the >20%. If you aren`t registered for cis, or fail to give your utr to the contractor, HMRC cannot find all your info, so deduct 30% instead.

There are conditions, which allow you to be paid in full from the contractor, but I don`t currently come within that category.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks KME, my sentiments exactly, what the hell is all that carp about paying up front " on account " as you say they have your money in their account when it should be in yours, and as I said earlier, no othe business is made to work like this !! X(

Its forced on us because of the iffy history of non tax payment in the construction industry. My four best customers are printers , not in the constuction industry, so they pay me gross Whats the prob ?

If you have a good tax record you should be paid gross and not treated like naughty schoolboys who can't be trusted . Builders brought this on us years ago with their " Lump " system , so much per day, cash in hand ,no questions, no tax, no insurance, no holiday pay, no rights, 'ows that then Del Boy attitude X(

We're not economic migrant workers trying to cheat the system , we're bleedin' electricians Mr. Brown ,we're educated manual workers.

See my point , if you take your skills to industrial work, commercial and domestic , direct, you get paid gross of tax, soon as you return to the building trade , Oh here,s that naughty sparks again we must stop his tax at source X(X( X(

 

[Evans Electric]

By George !! That feels better !!

 

[spudmiester]

I realy could go off on one about tax and HMRC, as have had excessive dealings with them which left me with not much hair and even less money, but that will save for another day.

Two points though......

Tax is the only area of English law where you are guilty till proven innocent. Basically the Taxman assumes you are cheating the system untill YOU can provide documentary evidence to prove you are not. If you cant.........Tough.

I think I am correct (though might not be) in saying that if you set yourself up as a limited company you dont have to get involved with CIS. Might mean more paperwork, but at least your money is in your bank.

 

[kme]

I realy could go off on one about tax and HMRC, as have had excessive dealings with them which left me with not much hair and even less money, but that will save for another day.Two points though......

Tax is the only area of English law where you are guilty till proven innocent. Basically the Taxman assumes you are cheating the system untill YOU can provide documentary evidence to prove you are not. If you cant.........Tough.

I think I am correct (though might not be) in saying that if you set yourself up as a limited company you dont have to get involved with CIS. Might mean more paperwork, but at least your money is in your bank.

Not quite. If someone is injured due to faulty electrical work, at a premises where you were the last electrician KNOWN to have worked, the onus is on you to prove that the faulty situation was not caused by you.

Off topic, I knowBlushing. Sorry

 

[Evans Electric]

Thats is correct, you claim it back from the inland revenue, ive always used a good accountant to do this and my end of year tax returns.

Hi Heathy , when you say thats correct, did you mean the painters paying twice ? Why do you have to claim some back ?:| I never have to claim any CIS tax back , you're not paying twice as well , are you :_| It is logical that if you are claiming back, then you are overpaying.

Deke Guiness Drink

 

[Evans Electric]

Not quite. If someone is injured due to faulty electrical work, at a premises where you were the last electrician KNOWN to have worked, the onus is on you to prove that the faulty situation was not caused by you.Off topic, I knowBlushing. Sorry

Never mind KME , its time for your nap now Blushing We all start to lose it as we get older ; \