Client interference

[Gerry E]

Hi Guys,
Just looking for opinions, I'm on a fairly big new build house , it's one of those jobs that I can leave to go and do other jobs but whenever I return the client, a professional person who thinks electrical work is easy as it's only 2 wires, as does just about every other trade,anyhow whenever I return to the job the client has fitted something, outside lights, although only the loop side cos he can't do the first light, outside sockets, internal lights, offering me advice even though I'm over 40 years in the game.My query is ,how would.you guys handle.this.Cheers

 

[johnb2713]

Hi Guys,
Just looking for opinions, I'm on a fairly big new build house , it's one of those jobs that I can leave to go and do other jobs but whenever I return the client, a professional person who thinks electrical work is easy as it's only 2 wires, as does just about every other trade,anyhow whenever I return to the job the client has fitted something, outside lights, although only the loop side cos he can't do the first light, outside sockets, internal lights, offering me advice even though I'm over 40 years in the game.My query is ,how would.you guys handle.this.Cheers

Let him continue and when he has caused an issue - extra work etc, point it out, he will soon work out it's cost him more. On the other hand if he's doing a decent job whats the problem?

 

[binky]

Present an interim invoice for your time and materials, and leave them to it, or get stuck in, bite your tongue, and do the work before he does.

Are you on a day rate or fixed price?

 

[UNG]

Is the client just first fixing or fixing the accessories as well, is the client using cable you have left on site or from the same source.

Could all get interesting at testing and certification time when it comes to extent of installation and if in the future there is any warranty claim

As said in another post may be it is time to invoice the work to date and walk

 

[binky]

Could all get interesting at testing and certification time when it comes to extent of installation and if in the future there is any warranty claim

very good point, personally I would not offer any warranty - it's either my work or not, half my work is not an acceptable situation.

 

[poni]

40 years in the game

and you have not had this before? I would get paid, do a minor work's cert, then walk,

 

[ProDave]

I have some (only some) sympathy with the client in this case. If he is self building a house properly, then he will be aiming for a very high level of insulation and air tightness. Lets be fair, 99% of builders and sparkies know anything about that (think passive house) and will just rort a 20mm hole through the wall to an outside light, poke the cable through, job done. No it is not if he is aiming for an airtight build?

So if he is detailing the cables through the wall to outside fittings in a way that meets his requirements and just leaving you to connect, then no problem.

BUT in that case I would expect the client to be talking to you about the requirements, and with it being an "open ended" job I would not be doing it on a fixed price.

 

[Murdoch]

Did the client not talk to you about this?

If be VERY tempted to walk away

 

[johnb2713]

I find this quite hard to understand. If I employ you guys to do some work for me, if I want to do some as well I really dont get what your problem is. I'm paying you to do work for me, whats the problem? If I fit some lights to a wall and ask you to connect to the switch and CU then thats what you do, again I'm paying for your time.

 

[Murdoch]

I find this quite hard to understand. If I employ you guys to do some work for me, if I want to do some as well I really dont get what your problem is. I'm paying you to do work for me, whats the problem? If I fit some lights to a wall and ask you to connect to the switch and CU then thats what you do, again I'm paying for your time.

When I used to do jobs like this all the detail would be sorted before I started…

Customers meddling with my new work isn’t at all helpful

 

[johnb2713]

When I used to do jobs like this all the detail would be sorted before I started…

Customers meddling with my new work isn’t at all helpful

I can understand if they were meddling with your new work eg if they added some extra sockets into a ring main you were installing but what about them adding something completely separate like as in this case, a pair of outside lights?

 

[Murdoch]

I can understand if they were meddling with your new work eg if they added some extra sockets into a ring main you were installing but what about them adding something completely separate like as in this case, a pair of outside lights?

And when they connect them wrong or pinch a cable …….. it all adds time and stress

 

[binky]

I can understand if they were meddling with your new work eg if they added some extra sockets into a ring main you were installing but what about them adding something completely separate like as in this case, a pair of outside lights?

Few clients actually have any skills.

 

[Murdoch]

Few clients actually have any skills.

but lots think they do ..............

 

[UNG]

I have some (only some) sympathy with the client in this case. If he is self building a house properly, then he will be aiming for a very high level of insulation and air tightness. Lets be fair, 99% of builders and sparkies know anything about that (think passive house) and will just rort a 20mm hole through the wall to an outside light, poke the cable through, job done. No it is not if he is aiming for an airtight build?

So if he is detailing the cables through the wall to outside fittings in a way that meets his requirements and just leaving you to connect, then no problem.

BUT in that case I would expect the client to be talking to you about the requirements, and with it being an "open ended" job I would not be doing it on a fixed price.

If the build is being done to a Passivhaus spec then I would have expected this to be stated at the start of the build.
While a Passivhaus spec can be quite onerous it is not that difficult to work to although the level of insulation required could have a bearing on the sizes of cable used to meet the load and thermal constraints as all the voids are usually filled with wool or shredded newspaper.
Where any holes are drilled through a wall or ducts enter the building they are generally sealed with tape so when construction is finished and the building is pressure tested any holes or leaks that have missed the taping / sealing session are generally picked up and sealed

 

[UNG]

I find this quite hard to understand. If I employ you guys to do some work for me, if I want to do some as well I really dont get what your problem is. I'm paying you to do work for me, whats the problem? If I fit some lights to a wall and ask you to connect to the switch and CU then thats what you do, again I'm paying for your time.

And how would you apportion any warranty liability in that situation?

 

[johnb2713]

And how would you apportion any warranty liability in that situation?

Blimey you're clutching at straws here......... so, what about warranty on your car tyres when you, an unskilled tyre technician pumps them up? The guy has fitted some lights and wants you to finish them off, inspect his work make sure it's done right, he's paying you really what is the problem with that?

 

[binky]

Blimey you're clutching at straws here......... so, what about warranty on your car tyres when you, an unskilled tyre technician pumps them up? The guy has fitted some lights and wants you to finish them off, inspect his work make sure it's done right, he's paying you really what is the problem with that?

We have legal liability for 5 years on a new installation, ergo, we are touchy about such things.

We also take pride in our work, so don't want untrained YouTube wannabees firkin about with our jobs. Just coz it looks easy on a video, doesn't mean it is, there's so many small details involved in our work that are the difference between a reliable system that lasts decades, and one that fails in a few years.

 

[Murdoch]

Blimey you're clutching at straws here......... so, what about warranty on your car tyres when you, an unskilled tyre technician pumps them up? The guy has fitted some lights and wants you to finish them off, inspect his work make sure it's done right, he's paying you really what is the problem with that?

I don’t know what your business did but how would you deal with customers who meddled with a part installed solution ?

 

[UNG]

Blimey you're clutching at straws here.........

Not sure why you think that

so, what about warranty on your car tyres when you, an unskilled tyre technician pumps them up?

I believe that is called routine maintenance, fitting said tyres to the rims is a different matter although most of the skill is operating the machine so do you go to your local tyre bay and ask to fit your own tyres

The guy has fitted some lights and wants you to finish them off, inspect his work make sure it's done right, he's paying you really what is the problem with that?

What if said work is covered by dot and dab or plastered over how do you make sure it is done right and installed to the regs it could have dodgy DIY taped up joints that anyone checking the install would never know about
I've had it a number times where the cable sheathing didn't look right when installing the cable, on a couple of occassions when we had concerns about the possible longevity of the cable we got the manufacturers in to verify it was ok to use and got written performance guarantees against premature failure

There are not many people who want the responsibility of signing off third party installation work that can test ok when new but once used for a little while can throw up problems if the failure is severe the guy or gal whose name is on the cert is on the hook and in the firing line