Crabtree C50 breakers

[Sidewinder]

IIRC,

Crabtree C50 BS3871 breakers were identified by the colour of the writing on the outside? On the On/Off legend & the rating on the end of the toggle?

White, Type 2, Yellow Type 3, Red, Type 4?

Can anyone confirm or clarify please?

I come across LOADS of these & more often than not cannot open the board up to check the sides of the devices.

IF I could have a definitive on this it would help SOOOOO much.

Thanks all.

 

[switch10]

c50 BS3871 were identified by writing on on off legend and rating on end of toggle in white writing, if yellow writing there BS60898

Hope this helps

 

[Sidewinder]

Ahh,

That is an issue for me then!

Are you sure?

Pretty please?

I may have to go back to Electium again!

Any other comments?

I have just been to a board full of white & yellow and as far as I can tell & am told all were isntalled at the same time, so they were either installed as a mix of Std. at the time of change or, there is another explanation.

Switch, I'm no doubting you but this is not the 1st time I have experienced this situation!

I see it weekly almost, problem is I can't open up the boards & pull out breakers to check!

 

[switch10]

i had a similar situation some time ago , had never come across this before and my wholesalers contacted electium to seek clarification for me. and this was what i was told.

Sorry only help i can be as as i said was first time i came across one of these and was a few months back, hopefully someone can back me up on this shortly.

 

[Manator]

Branch breaker current ratings included 5A, 7.5A, 10A, 15A and 30A while main breakers went up to 60A. The interrupting rating of all these breakers was 3000A (colored handle) or 4500A (white handle).

Hope that helps

 

[Sidewinder]

Manator,

Thanks for that but sorry it just confuses the issue!

Electrium it is Mon a.m then unless one of you can provide the definitive answer my Monday!

Thanks for all help.

 

[Manator]

Sorry I should clarify, c50 series of breakers both triple pole and single pole were primarily type 2, the white and yellow indicated the interrupting rating 3000A (yellow) 4500A (white).

The colour only indicated if it was 3000A or 4500A.

 

[Evans Electric]

It will have to be Electrium Technical methinks , I thought all C50s were , by the name , type C . (2) Can't help with the colours. All I can add is that they are magnetic and hydraulic action . I have a few ,if you need any . Old 'uns though.

 

[Manator]

It will have to be Electrium Technical methinks , I thought all C50s were , by the name , type C . (2) Can't help with the colours. All I can add is that they are magnetic and hydraulic action . I have a few ,if you need any . Old 'uns though.

They will tell you the same thing I have, that is if indeed they actually know.

Most domestic single phase MCB's are now 6000A and 3 phase 10000A, in bygone days fault currents were never that high.(or was and we did not know it).

BS 3871 is now defunct as a British standard, however when any PIR is to be carried out the inspector is expected to know the capabilities of any breaker to assess its capabilities to perform as it was designed to under changing conditions.

The main consideration with type 2 breakers from the 1950's and 1960's is that the PFC could be greater than the original design accounted for.

If the fault at source is less than the rating on the c50 then no code would be required as it complies with an earlier edition and is still functional.

 

[sparkytim]

Hi

My understanding is that White current marking on front of MCB was

BS 3871 Type 2 3 KA < 1992

Yellow marking BS 60898 Type C 4.5 KA > 1992

Not come across a Red one.

 

[switch10]

Hi My understanding is that White current marking on front of MCB was

BS 3871 Type 2 3 KA < 1992

Yellow marking BS 60898 Type C 4.5 KA > 1992

Not come across a Red one.

exactly what my understanding of them are colour wise, just i failed to mention the type.

 

[Andy™]

It will have to be Electrium Technical methinks , I thought all C50s were , by the name , type C . (2) Can't help with the colours. All I can add is that they are magnetic and hydraulic action . I have a few ,if you need any . Old 'uns though.

C50 was just the model of the breakers. just like crabtree starbreaker & loadstar

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks Andy, I've never looked into them that close but remember that when an apprentice , the firm used them to directly switch lighting in industrial units, fitting the board by the entrance doors. I understood that the construction of C50s would let you do this without the breakers carping out.

I tried to be clever once , fitted overdoor heaters in a shop, board right next to heaters so thought the Federal Stablocks would do as switches , they lasted a week before carping out .

 

[batty]

Thanks Andy, I've never looked into them that close but remember that when an apprentice , the firm used them to directly switch lighting in industrial units, fitting the board by the entrance doors. I understood that the construction of C50s would let you do this without the breakers carping out. I tried to be clever once , fitted overdoor heaters in a shop, board right next to heaters so thought the Federal Stablocks would do as switches , they lasted a week before carping out .

I heard them stablocks are a bit dodgy though.

:innocent

 

[Andy™]

isnt it only the american ones?

 

[batty]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Sidewinder]

Thanks guys,

It looks like the original info I was given was dodgy.

I know that the C50 range were available in 3871 & 60898 guises.

I had been told that the colours related to the curves rather than the std though.

I've never seen a red one, that was again just info I was given.

Problem is when these were being fitted I was working in a Siemens / Telemecanique / Merlin Gerin environment, and almost no domestic.

Back to the drawing board then.

One thing I do know for definite is that the C50 range is now only available in C curve, and that the current ranges are as per 3871, i.e. 15A, 30A, & 60A etc. rather than 16A, 32A & 63A.

However you can get the curves & Z's from Crabtree.

I should have them somewhere I'll have to dig them out.

If & when I find them I'll upload them.

So it remains then that I can't ID the type & curve without removing the breakers from the board, thats an issue!

C'est La Vie!

Thanks all who contributed.

Paul

 

[Evans Electric]

Sidey , is there any mileage in me looking at what is on the side of the ones I have ??

 

[Sidewinder]

ANY & ALL help appreciated mate!

I have loads of locations with the same customer that have these boards, it is DIFFICULT to isolate & going by the "quality" of some of the installs I'd rather not poke about live! If you know what I mean!

Thanks Deke.

Paul

 

[green-hornet]

BS3871, which specified the miniature circuit breakers Types 1 to 4 was withdrawn in 1994 and has been replaced with BS EN 60898:1991

The colour only indicated the curve white and yellow.

I think the confusion comes from people who now call BS3871 BS EN 60898