Cu change

[bright.spark]

Hi I was asked a question today and wasnt sure of the answer, any help would be appreciated. Basically a friend owns a home which has be empty for about 7 years. He now wants to rent it out. He needs a part p cert. (Im not part p approved) but I looked at the extent of the work today and he needs a new fuseboard as the current one is about 20 years old. What I am wondering is if the fuseboard gets changed do the out going circuits need to be up to regulations? What I mean is, if he has the whole house on one lighting circuit does this need to be split into 2? Also will he need to have smoke detectors etc installed?

Sorry its long winded, Ive been out of domestic work for a while and am just getting back into it, once ive updated my courses.

Thanks guys.

 

[ProDave]

He doesn't need a part p certificate, he needs a PIR to prove the wiring is safe.

Others may think differently, but he does not need the installation bought up to current standards, just assurance it is safe.

A CU change may be one way to ensure it's safe. What sort of fuse board is there at the moment?

If doing a CU change, the only really important thing to do is ensure water and gas bonding is up to standards. Providing there are no faults, everything else can stay as it is.

 

[bright.spark]

Its the ones with the rewireable fuse wire in the carriers. So if one circuit is used for lighting the whole house and one circuit used for sockets this is acceptable?

Also what about the smokes and heat detectors?

I have my 2391 but wont have my 17th edition untill new thursday, will I be allowed to fill in the PIR?

 

[m4tty]

+1 ^^ dave ^^ It would be a good idea to add some mains smokes if he's renting it out. Don't you think?? Could be kids staying there!.

 

[m4tty]

Smokes and heat detectors only required on new build or rewire I think mate, but I'd still

stick some in if it's being rented out.

You don't have to be part p registered to do a pir. Your 2391 is more than enough I think.

Cheers

 

[initforthemoney]

I bet the lighting has two circuits just stuffed into one fuse.

 

[steptoe]

this has been gone over loads of times,

changing a CU IS notifiable,

so the answer is yes you either need to be part P registered or notify BC some other way.

as you say you have been out of domestic for a while so perhaps you need to obtain the services of a properly trained and qualified to the current regs spark to do the work for you.

 

[m4tty]

Had a bad day steps lol

 

[kme]

I have my 2391

Good! :yawn

Its the ones with the rewireable fuse wire

Is THAT the right terminology now? :coat

if one circuit is used for lighting the whole house and one circuit used for sockets this is acceptable?

What do they actually teach on 2391 nowadays? X(

will I be allowed to fill in the PIR?

:slap :slap:slap

Forgive my gross stupidity; but isn`t "2391" the "inspection & testing" course?

Doesn`t a PIR embody the very essence of the 2391?

When you say

I have my 2391

You have your 2,391 what? :run

headbang

 

[steptoe]

Had a bad day steps lol

yes I have,

what makes you think that.?

bad day explode

 

[steptoe]

Had a bad day steps lol

I bet the lighting has two circuits just stuffed into one fuse.

I bet there is a black wire somewhere too.

 

[Lurch]

I bet the lighting has two circuits just stuffed into one fuse.

I bet you're one of those people who sees two 1mm cables in the CU on a CU change and just shoves them in 2 6A MCB's.

 

[steptoe]

I bet you're one of those people who sees two 1mm cables in the CU on a CU change and just shoves them in 2 6A MCB's.

and why not?

12amps is plenty to run the lights in a house.?

 

[kme]

I bet you're one of those people who sees two 1mm cables in the CU on a CU change and just shoves them in 2 6A MCB's.

and why not?12amps is plenty to run the lights in a house.?

YOU`RE my 2 missing students! Where the heck have you been all this time??

:^O :^O:^OROTFWLGuinness:Applaud

 

[steptoe]

PRESENT SIR.

:Salute :Salute

 

[Lurch]

and why not?12amps is plenty to run the lights in a house.?

I was going for the borrowed neutral scenario that is often caused by casually splitting feeds from a single circuit into 2 at the CU.

YOU`RE my 2 missing students! Where the heck have you been all this time?

Fitting boilers and rebuilding engines. Sparkying is for morons.

 

[kme]

Ask a silly question.................................

 

[steptoe]

I was going for the borrowed neutral scenario that is often caused by casually splitting feeds from a single circuit into 2 at the CU.Fitting boilers and rebuilding engines. Sparkying is for morons.

me me me,

thats me .

 

[ProDave]

I was going for the borrowed neutral scenario that is often caused by casually splitting feeds from a single circuit into 2 at the CU.

Nowt wrong with a borrowed neutral on a lighting circuit as long as they are both on the same RCD. I think it's infinitely preferable to have separate MCB's for the lighting circuits than keep them on one MCB because of the borrowed neutral.

Of course if you can find and correct the borrowed neutral then you can have them on separate MCB's on separate RCD's

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Nowt wrong with a borrowed neutral on a lighting circuit as long as they are both on the same RCD. I think it's infinitely preferable to have separate MCB's for the lighting circuits than keep them on one MCB because of the borrowed neutral.

:_| :_| headbang

:red card

Borrowed neutral is NOT borrowed anything....

It is TWO circuit breakers supplying power to the same piece of cable.

It is a VERY dangerous practice leaving the probability that someone could work on cables thinking them to be dead when they can still be energised...

which rather goes against the fundamental principals that a good electrician works to.. "To protect people, property and livestock (131.1 pg 14)"

That is notwithstanding the fact it is a direct contravention of

regulation 314.4 page 39 Red Book:-

Where an installation comprises more than one final circuit, each final circuit shall be connected to a separate way in a distribution board, the wiring of each final circuit shall be electrically separate from that of every other final circuit, so as to prevent the indirect energizing of a final circuit intended to be isolated.

OR if you still don't like all this new money..

Regulation 314-01-04 page 33 Brown Book:-

Where an installation comprises more than one final circuit, each final circuit shall be connected to a separate way in a distribution board, the wiring of each final circuit shall be electrically separate from that of every other final circuit, so as to prevent the indirect energizing of a final circuit intended to be isolated.

OR.... if your not happy with all these new changes to regs you could even cast your eyes over....

Regulation 314-01-04 page 29 Yellow Book:-

Where an installation comprises more than one final circuit, each final circuit shall be connected to a separate way in a distribution board, the wiring of each final circuit shall be electrically separate from that of every other final circuit, so as to prevent the indirect energizing of a final circuit intended to be isolated.

No!.. I am sorry but a final circuit that can be energized from TWO sources IS bad practice..

and has been bad practice for a very long time..

and any person suggesting it is OK to do should NOT be giving advice out on a public forum!

Consider............

DIY homeowner, changing his new landing light fitting that he buys from B&Q..

Turns off the upstairs lights...

Like wot it says in the instructions...

Take old fitting down...

Pops into the garage to get some bigger screws.. (cuz the ones in the box are always too small)

Comes back... Not knowing that little DIY jnr has pressed the downstairs switch to work the landing light...

DIY bob standing on his stool top of the landing grabs hold of the red and back wires, (its old wiring in his house!! ) to put them into the connector block..

WHAM!

gets a 230v belt between Line and Neutral....

Not path to earth .. So NO RCD trip's!!!!

"infinitely preferable"

Tosh!!!!!!!!If you cannot locate and separated two circuits feeding the same neutral wire..

they MUST be put onto ONE circuit breaker to prevent the risk of accidental energizing the circuit whilst a circuit is being worked on.

:C

:coffee