Dead before it takes off?

[phil d]

I've been reading lately about the autonomous, or self driving car, apparently this has already been tested in London and they are in the process of drawing up rules regarding the use of these vehicles. Apparently, they will need 2 different insurance policies, one for when a human is driving and one for when it is driving itself, also there must be a capable and legal driver in the vehicle during the time it's on the road, also when in self drive mode" a person must be sat in the drivers seat in a normal position so as not to cause a distraction to other road users" e.g you must not have your feet on the dashboard.

Now consider this, 2 policies are going to be dearer than 1, I cannot drive to the pub, get drunk and allow my car to drive me home, because if I'm over the limit then I'm no longer a "capable and legal driver", this car in self drive mode will drive slower and keep a greater distance between vehicles than most drivers do, and I've still got to sit in the drivers seat and "pretend " to drive! No as far as I can see, these vehicles will be a novelty similar to the Sinclair C5. I think most people when they think of a driverless car think of something like one of those out of the Jetsons cartoons, jump in sit back and tell it where to go. Personally I think I'll stick to my old Citroen Xsara, and either use taxi's or ring my son if I want to go out for a drink.

 

[Evans Electric]

I can just see driverless cars catching on .....as long as there is a man walking in front with a red flag !.

 

[Rob.]

I can see the restriction of having to have a 'legal driver' ready to take over only be necessary until the tech proves itself. How long this will take, who knows. It is the future though. 

Don't think of them being useful to nip to the pub an carry you home legless, think of haulage companies that will eventually be able to get rid of all their drivers and the cost saving to them. The automated trucks won't need breaks etc... Similar to how some of the bigger quarries in Australia have their dumper trucks automated. Or in the USA where they have farm vehicles automated. 

 

[apprentice87]

Take it from me, it will never ever work.......

This is why an aeroplane can land itself, and indeed, the crews are instructed to land the thing themselves half the time, as otherwise they get out of practice. BUT, an aeroplane is not allowed to take off on its own, as, if things go wrong, the computer that flies the thing, due to not having common sense, cannot be relied on to make a good choice as to what to do next...

It will be the same with the cars. The firms concerned will just get themselves HUGE grants from the knobs in government, proise to creat a trillion jobs, pocket the money and clear off...

[Trust me on this..]

john..

 

[phil d]

Take it from me, it will never ever work.......

This is why an aeroplane can land itself, and indeed, the crews are instructed to land the thing themselves half the time, as otherwise they get out of practice. BUT, an aeroplane is not allowed to take off on its own, as, if things go wrong, the computer that flies the thing, due to not having common sense, cannot be relied on to make a good choice as to what to do next...

It will be the same with the cars. The firms concerned will just get themselves HUGE grants from the knobs in government, proise to creat a trillion jobs, pocket the money and clear off...

[Trust me on this..]

john..

Exactly,plus what about the traffic jams? They've already admitted that traffic jams will get worse with these things until 75% of road vehicles are driverless due to the way they work.As I understand it, they will leave a bigger gap between themselves and an ordinary car than they would between themselves and another driverless vehicle due to the fact they communicate with each other. As things go the jams are bad enough and I can't see these vehicles being cheap enough for everyone to afford, or maybe thats the real reason for the rush to rollout so called "smart" motorways, in America they have dedicated car pool lanes, maybe these extra lanes will become solely for the use of driverless vehicles.

 

[Doc Hudson]

What exactly is the problem that driver-less cars are trying to solve. I can understand looking at alternative fuel sources, such as electric vehicles etc. But what is the existing problem that means that anyone should want or need a driver-less car. If you don't want to drive, get a taxi, chauffeur, bus, train, walk, or a friend to drive for you. Looking at the frequency of updates on every other software controlled system, we'll have our home broadband speeds clogged up with our Phone's, PC's, Driver-less Car's, TV boxes etc, etc, all doing automatic updates once we get back in range of our home Wi-Fi.  No doubt we will also find the driver-less cars using the out-of-date google maps taking you up inappropriate routes along with all the foreign truck drivers trying to reverse out of a side road which now has bollards across it making it into two cul-de-sacs.

Doc H.  

 

[phil d]

What exactly is the problem that driver-less cars are trying to solve. I can understand looking at alternative fuel sources, such as electric vehicles etc. But what is the existing problem that means that anyone should want or need a driver-less car. If you don't want to drive, get a taxi, chauffeur, bus, train, walk, or a friend to drive for you. Looking at the frequency of updates on every other software controlled system, we'll have our home broadband speeds clogged up with our Phone's, PC's, Driver-less Car's, TV boxes etc, etc, all doing automatic updates once we get back in range of our home Wi-Fi.  No doubt we will also find the driver-less cars using the out-of-date google maps taking you up inappropriate routes along with all the foreign truck drivers trying to reverse out of a side road which now has bollards across it making it into two cul-de-sacs.

Doc H.  

Quite, apparently because these cars all follow each other at an even speed and distance it will make things run smoother, until we get the software crash that is. No I feel this is some kind of attempt at controlling the masses, no doubt with a bit of programming "they" will be able to control where we go, and how we get there, amongst other things, although to be honest it's a bit like they were talking about people not owning cars and how you would simply go online and order one and it would arrive, then disappear when you had finished with it.

Now this may be fine for getting to and from your office, but what about people who need to move things,us going from job to job with our tools. How are these vehicles going to be looked after? If these vehicles are going to roam from job to job then who's going to check they are fit? Suppose you order a car and it arrives it's last job being to transport a load of drunks back from the pub, how would anyone know that a drunken bloke has vomited in the footwell, or about the drunken young lady who has urinated on the back seat? I'm not exagerating, these things happen ask any taxi driver, or about the car with the family in who have allowed their kids to spill crisps or chocolate all over the seats, would you be happy getting in one of these in your best clothes to travel somewhere important.

They reckon this will work because the "Boris bikes" worked in London, People take a bike ride to their destination then leave the bike at another of the pick up points. the difference here is this, drunks don't usually ride bikes, and if they do, any vomit or urine ends up on the road, likewise you are not going to get a family with a couple of kids spilling crisps and chocolate everywhere, Plus when you go to collect a bike you can avoid a damaged one, no it's a silly idea with very little merit,like most of the idea's that are supported by governments these days. 

 

[Andy™]

They reckon this will work because the "Boris bikes" worked in London, People take a bike ride to their destination then leave the bike at another of the pick up points. the difference here is this, drunks don't usually ride bikes, and if they do, any vomit or urine ends up on the road, likewise you are not going to get a family with a couple of kids spilling crisps and chocolate everywhere, Plus when you go to collect a bike you can avoid a damaged one, no it's a silly idea with very little merit,like most of the idea's that are supported by governments these days. 

iirc a car version of that already exists. but you have to do the driving yourself

 

[Sharpend]

The problem here is some daft twit has been watching to many Sci-fi films and now thinks we need that! 

I say 'you twit want one make it for yourself and don't call me when the software crashes and you're stranded, cos I'll just rev me engine and leave you in a plume of smoke'. 

This is exactly another method to control the masses. Last attempt they took your possessions and told you to take a shower, so where's this one going to end??

Remenber this: they can only think they have power, when we actually have it. If we stand together and refuse these transporters then they will fail. 

 

[ProDave]

Ah we have drifted onto "pool cars"  Some half wit thinks if instead of each owning a car, we all share a group of pool cars, then there will be "less cars on the road" which is good for the environment. EXCEPT we will each do just the same miles in a pool car, so the pool cars will do a lot more miles, AND in addition the pool car has to travel backwards and forwards to get to you when you need it so ADDITIONAL mileage to be done.  That's going to save the planet isn't it?

 

[bluetobits]

The thing with these driverless cars is..... Will they have any ethics programmed into their software systems? I mean, if a dog and a child were to run into the road, which would it swerve to avoid?

Just a thought 

 

[phil d]

The thing with these driverless cars is..... Will they have any ethics programmed into their software systems? I mean, if a dog and a child were to run into the road, which would it swerve to avoid?

Just a thought 

Exactly, I remember when my ex missus was learning to drive, I was driving along a road and she informed me "you should be further over the white line, if one of those parked cars opens his door you'll hit it", I just glared at her, "yes dear, and if I swerve to avoid an opening car door and hit something head on then it's my fault", she looked at me and I knew she had no idea. "Look love, if someone opens a door without looking and I hit it, then it's his insurance that takes the hit, if I swerve to avoid him and hit someone else then it's me who cops for the bill".

It's the same with driving, if someone makes a mistake and you swerve, what are you going to hit, It's better to hit the offending vehicle than swerve and take out a load of pedestrians in a bus queue!

As you say will these vehicles have the capability to perform this function? I doubt it.

 

[Blue Duck]

Ah we have drifted onto "pool cars"  Some half wit thinks if instead of each owning a car, we all share a group of pool cars, then there will be "less cars on the road" which is good for the environment. EXCEPT we will each do just the same miles in a pool car, so the pool cars will do a lot more miles, AND in addition the pool car has to travel backwards and forwards to get to you when you need it so ADDITIONAL mileage to be done.  That's going to save the planet isn't it?

The problem is...

The roads.

They are old, full of potholes and overcrowded and the local authorities are shutting side roads in favour of gentrification (CPZ + council tax bands = £££) This forces traffic onto main roads where the layouts are poor and the road management systems are poorer therefore creating more pollution as the 400 cars wait for the 10second filter lane to turn right because they got rid of the two lanes leading up to the lights in favour of some empty blue tarmac.

Poor political decisions have a far greater impact than any of these short sighted twats could have ever possibly conceived.

going for a lie down now....

 

[Andy™]

road technology stopped improving when the romans left

 

[phil d]

road technology stopped improving when the romans left

Que the "what have the Romans ever done for us" sketch

 

[Doc Hudson]

Earlier today had one of those situations where an ambulance on lights and siren was approaching from behind on a relatively standard width road but not a lot of passing room. I quickly established that the pavement was clear in front and behind, so slowed down, pulled over half onto pavement, to give the ambulance a clear run. All smooth and good, move back out again once ambulance passed. I was reminded of this thread and it got me wondering, how does automated driving cope with these type of situations? A lot of non-standard driving actions following a second nature response to hearing a siren, then figuring out it was behind, not in front or to the side. Is it possible that automated vehicles could hinder emergency vehicles, how far behind are they looking and listening?

Doc H.

 

[apprentice87]

Exactly the reason that planes are not allowed to fly themselves off the ground and exactly the reason that these cars will never exist; You cannot build judgement and common sense into a computer...

john..

 

[phil d]

I can see the restriction of having to have a 'legal driver' ready to take over only be necessary until the tech proves itself. How long this will take, who knows. It is the future though. 

Don't think of them being useful to nip to the pub an carry you home legless, think of haulage companies that will eventually be able to get rid of all their drivers and the cost saving to them. The automated trucks won't need breaks etc... Similar to how some of the bigger quarries in Australia have their dumper trucks automated. Or in the USA where they have farm vehicles automated. 

We already have automated farm vehicles over here, in fact the farm I do maintenance for has one, they're not really much good over here as the fields generally are not big enough. Ours has a GPS unit fitted and basically when spraying a crop with fertiliser or weedkiller what you do is this, First run put the unit into a sort of learn mode and drive the route doing the first spray, at the end of the run when the field is finished you press another button and it tells it it's finished. next time you want to spray you take the machine to the start point set it up and let it go, when it comes to the end of the run it will stop, you can also get a "follow me" system, this is used for ploughing or seeding, 2 units 1 driven and 1 driverless, can work together in a large field, if you map the start points, one starts at the edge and another starts midway along, the driverless one will mimic the actions of the driven one.

http://npseymour.co.uk/machinery/driverless-fendt-tractors/

 

[Andy™]

Earlier today had one of those situations where an ambulance on lights and siren was approaching from behind on a relatively standard width road but not a lot of passing room. I quickly established that the pavement was clear in front and behind, so slowed down, pulled over half onto pavement, to give the ambulance a clear run. All smooth and good, move back out again once ambulance passed. I was reminded of this thread and it got me wondering, how does automated driving cope with these type of situations? A lot of non-standard driving actions following a second nature response to hearing a siren, then figuring out it was behind, not in front or to the side. Is it possible that automated vehicles could hinder emergency vehicles, how far behind are they looking and listening?

Doc H.

id image the driverless car would do the same as those idiots who fail to notice whats going on an try to ovetake the car that has 'pulled over'

or in the case of the other week, overtake, get past then figure out there is an ambulance behind and stop dead on a crossing that is 1 lane wide where so they cant pass, whilst expecting the ambulance to jump over them

 

[Phoenix]

I've been reading lately about the autonomous, or self driving car, apparently this has already been tested in London and they are in the process of drawing up rules regarding the use of these vehicles. Apparently, they will need 2 different insurance policies, one for when a human is driving and one for when it is driving itself, also there must be a capable and legal driver in the vehicle during the time it's on the road, also when in self drive mode" a person must be sat in the drivers seat in a normal position so as not to cause a distraction to other road users" e.g you must not have your feet on the dashboard.

Now consider this, 2 policies are going to be dearer than 1, I cannot drive to the pub, get drunk and allow my car to drive me home, because if I'm over the limit then I'm no longer a "capable and legal driver",

I think the issue is that we are in very early days of the technology..... current technology lacks a lot of practical applications and is just about usless to the common man... there will be some who will want one as a way to show off though. This is perhaps just as well as it will enable things to be improved upon

It will be the same with the cars. The firms concerned will just get themselves HUGE grants from the knobs in government, proise to creat a trillion jobs, pocket the money and clear off...

There is a quote from a venture capitalist after the dot com bubble "'Nothing important has ever been built without irrational exuberance"....a lot of money will end up wasted, a lot of companies will fold, but by the end the basics will be sorted out and there will be room for a sucessfull technology to be built