Distributors isolation switch

[Duncan Bennett]

Can anyone help.

I just recently regraded - after a lapse of some 15 years.

Now I'm starting to get a couple of enquiries for jobs, one of which is a rewire.

I'll have to install a new consumer unit, replace tails, etc. However, in my day, we would just break the distributors seal and inform them that we'd done so. I believe this sort of action is a hanging offence now. So, how do I go about getting the juice off so that I can disconnect the tails feeding the existing consumer unit and getting a distributors switch installed?

As you can tell from the picture, it's a bit of a squeeze

Also - just out of interest - what is going on with the distributors, multicore neutral? Odd?

All help appreciated.

Duncan

 

[Technician]

You will need to be careful because there is

a specific statement in the amended regs

which states that only a DNO or someone

authorised by DNO can break seals as you

state.

If you are a scheme member, it may be easier.

Some suppliers are stating that scheme

members are permitted by them to break

seals and pull the fuse.

Some, not all.

 

[ProDave]

I see you are in the Scottish Borders. Is that an area covered by Scottish Hydro, part of Scottish & Southern Energy?

If so, they give permission to qualified sparks to cut the seal and pull the fuse. There's a thread about it here somewhere.

Having said that, I don't much like the look of that supply head. Does the "henley" box contain the supply fuse, or is that just a junction box and there's a supply fuse somewhere else? I've not seen one like that before. If in doubt get them to come and check it out and advise you. I usually find Scottish Hydro are very helpful.

Another possibility is can you get them to change the meter for a new one? If they do, they fit Siemens meters that have a built in isolator within the meter. That really makes your life simple and that's what I find in most houses up here.

 

[Duncan Bennett]

You will need to be careful because there is a specific statement in the amended regs

which states that only a DNO or someone

authorised by DNO can break seals as you

state.

Thanks Technician.

But how do you go about things if you can't break the seal. Can you request that the distributor install an isolator? From the picture, the tails go straight from the meter, back into the box and then through a gland-connection straight into the metal consumer unit. The technique for getting the tails out of the consumer unit switch without my taking a hit won't, I assume, be listed in the ECS Health & Safety book?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was made at 14:26 ----------

Thanks for that, ProDave.

I am in the Borders, but the job is in Kilbarchan just west of Glasgow.

The supply fuse must be in the Henley box, but that is also sealed.

I'm not sure who covers Kilbarchan, but I'll give them a call and see what they can do. That neutral definitely looks dodgy.

 

[Technician]

Duncan, I think you are right there;

I think you can ask that a double

pole isolator be fitted, which removes

the need to pull the cut out in the future.

Pro Dave is right; there have been some

threads on here about some suppliers

permitting qualified guys to pull the device.

If that is the cut out, It may need to renewed

anyway because a cover has to be removed

to pull it, which LOOKS like live parts may

be exposed. Stand to be corrected though.

The tails also look undersized. Are they 16 mm

or less in area?

Could you have it all done in one with a smart

meter fitted?

 

[Duncan Bennett]

Hi Technician

They are single insulated and look to be about 10mm, let alone 16mm

Looking at the green earth sleeving, etc., this installation hasn't been touched for years! Although much of it seems to be in plastic, I found a cupboard light - still working - which is done in lead!! That takes me back a bit, lol.

I looked up the DNO for this area and it seems to be Scottish Power so, if I get the job, I'll give them a call. The smart meter is probably a 'best option' for them as well. They'll certainly have to upgrade.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

It's 15 years since I last practiced, but even then I can't remember seeing a multicore, twisted neutral.

 

[Evans Electric]

Duncan the twisted neutral is the concentric outer core of the incomer , it OK , just not double insulated.

Out going tails from the meter have been passed back through the cut out to the consumer by the look of it . Never seen that done before TBH.

Might be best to get an isolator fitted.

Can you tell what type of supply it is ? Half of the incomer may be earths, you'd only tell by looking inside the cut out.

 

[ProDave]

In light of the single insulated substandard meter tails, report it as a dangerous installation to the DNO. Mention the word safety, or danger, and they are usually out the same day.

Then when the guy gets there, explain your concerns about the tails and general condition of the head and "see what he can do" about an isolator. Perhaps if you have a REC2 and suitable enclosure with you, it may oil the wheels so to speak.

 

[Duncan Bennett]

@Evans Electric: I think it's TN-C but hard to tell as I don't want to push my luck and break the seal on the enclosure. And, yes, the consumer unit is attached to the enclosure with a brass gland. Hence the reason I really need to break the seals to get the thing off; either that or I'm going to have to strip down the old consumer unit, and I don't fancy the hassle - or the potential buzz Besides, even if I managed to isolate it and put in a temporary joint, the DNO would still have to come out and reconnect to their supply.

@ProDave: You're right, and I don't think they could argue that it is potentially dangerous.

 

[OnOff]

[/ATTACH]

In light of the single insulated substandard meter tails, report it as a dangerous installation to the DNO. Mention the word safety, or danger, and they are usually out the same day.Then when the guy gets there, explain your concerns about the tails and general condition of the head and "see what he can do" about an isolator. Perhaps if you have a REC2 and suitable enclosure with you, it may oil the wheels so to speak.

Deffo the case in my (limited) experience that this will "oil the wheels". As I've posted elsewhere I recently wanted an REC fitted and EDF is my supplier with UKPN the DNO. First time I'd done this so decided to go through the proper procedure to experience it more than anything rather than having the seal fairy visit. I explained to EDF that my upfront 30mA RCD wasn't working properly thus I had a dangerous situation. One EDF person said they would get it done asap as an emergency and made noises about "phoning the engineers now".....in the event it was about 2 weeks before they came. I didn't want to wait knowing my RCD was duff so plumbed in the new standalone RCD and REC AFTER the duff RCD which I used in effect as an isolator so I could carry out the bulk of the work without cutting the seals. The fella who turned up was expecting to "change a meter" - no idea whatsoever where that came from. I explained the situation to him and he said "Is that it?". As I'd done the bulk he just took out the service fuse whilst he worked, renewed the tails from fuse to meter and then cut back the tails I had left long in the new REC. I was able to see the amperage of the service fuse which I didn't know before and have all new tails. We chewed the fat over coffee and biscuits and I learnt the phrase "Sweet n Sour Power" cos UK Power networks are owned by the Chinese! The guys on the ground seem spot on but the bureaucratic, top heavy organisations above them are a joke. BTW seems if you're a British Gas customer then getting an REC fitted is both cheap and easy!

View attachment 3288

 

[batty]

I had a strange one today meter move and BG came to install new meter when UKPN were on site. There set up is completely different to UKPN as on new installs they always fit an REC isolator which is what he did. I suppose this probably comes from the fact BG always have an isolator so engineers can isolate the gas supply. Maybe one day UKPN will fit isolators I won't hold my breath though.