Domestic Fire alarms

[maccarooni]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I can't seem to find any literature to back it up/show customer. On a full rewire smokes a required and heat in kitchen to cover all habitable areas. Customer has said he has bought some from B&Q.... 3 for a tenner or summat like that. Tried to explain that these ones are only battery operated and mains linked with battery back-up are required. So now I need to find some thing to back it up....

All help gratefully received.

Macca.

 

[Zeespark]

You only technically need interlinked smokes for new builds under Part P rules, not rewires, but if you explain to them the merits of interlinked, then they should see sense. You can bring a donkey to the river, but they may not drink so to speak.

Andy

 

[Manator]

You only technically need interlinked smokes for new builds under Part P rules, not rewires, but if you explain to them the merits of interlinked, then they should see sense. You can bring a donkey to the river, but they may not drink so to speak.Andy

A full rewire is notifiable under Building regulations, to gain a compliance certificate you MUST include mains wired smoke alarms. Failure to install them will result in non compliance. Its a building regulation not an electrical regulation.

 

[maccarooni]

Thanks for the confirmation Manator.

I would appreciate a nudge in the direction of literature to show the customer.

Macca

 

[Zeespark]

My apologies Manator, you can remove My post if you wish to, I feel like a right puppet now.

Andy

 

[Manator]

No need , like I said we all sometimes forget that along with the electrical regulations there are other regulations that we need to comply with. There have been numerous threads before about all the building regulations that can effect the electrician.

Interestingly one of the latest updates to these regulations is the ventilation of bathroom and kitchens etc, we now need to confirm the effectiveness of extraction, most of this is done by calculation by the various manufacturing companies and should be included in the litrature provided, so the liabilty of proof is more or less taken away from the installer.

 

[sellers]

is this really true of re-wires? I was under the imprssion these building regulations only applied to new builds, extensions and such like.

otherwise we'd be putting the sockets and switches at 450 and 1200 as well.

 

[Manator]

is this really true of re-wires? I was under the imprssion these building regulations only applied to new builds, extensions and such like.otherwise we'd be putting the sockets and switches at 450 and 1200 as well.

There are relaxations to the rewire ruling, the heights of sockets whilst not enforced to be 450mm for example, should be high enough to lift them off the skirting :|

I had the job of inspecting a property for a LABC which was carried out by a bogus Part P electrician. One of the requirements was the smoke alarm installation, he had in fact fitted two, one down and one up. However he had failed to place a detector between any area most vunerable to fire and the stairs, this contrevened the regulations and was added to the 113 infringements I had to record.

I will dig out the regulations for you, as I am now on my laptop and not PC it is a little akward to find all the backup regs. I will do a post when I have them all together.

 

[maccarooni]

Again Manator,

Thank you for your replies. I look forward to to your regulation update. When you post them, if not as a reply to this post please let us know in which section they have been posted.

Macca

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

A full rewire is notifiable under Building regulations, to gain a compliance certificate you MUST include mains wired smoke alarms. Failure to install them will result in non compliance. Its a building regulation not an electrical regulation.

It still amazes me that even electricians 'registered competent' under various bodies don't realise the part P certificate is not an electrical cert. It is to state the electrician that carried out a job has followed the all the applicable building regulations. The NICEIC has changed their part P submissions ( in my view for the better) so you now link your electrical cert Number to the part P cert.

 

[sparky b]

I will dig out the regulations for you, as I am now on my laptop and not PC it is a little akward to find all the backup regs. I will do a post when I have them all together.

Please do, I was under the same impression as Mr Sellers, it would be good to read up on it!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I think Billy on DIY sos was recently seen drilling a series of holes through joists for his cables near to a wall. That was just one example that he certainly does not know the building regs.

 

[NozSpark]

I'd love to see this regulation as I've been offering smoke alarms in addition to rewires, not as part of.. IYKWIM?

 

[kme]

I think building regs downloads have moved from ODPM.gov.uk to planningportal.gov.uk.

Wherever they are, you want part "F" (IIRC, reference is made to both part "P" AND BS5839-6)

KME

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

First point of reference IMHO would be...

Page 64 On Site guide:-

7.5.2 Smoke & heat alarms (part B)

Part B of building regs requires all new and refurbished dwelling houses to be provided with a fire detection alarm system..

Then..

start around Page 19 Of Approved Document B

http://www.hi-levelmezzanines.co.uk/downloads/Building%20Regulation%20Part%20B.pdf

you can download App Doc B from our downloads section...

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/downloads.php?do=file&id=24

Guinness

 

[Manator]

Thanks Special location , the inspection I carried out was in 2009 I still have the written docs here somewhere, I will dig them out and do a watered down version, incidentally it was the chief building inspector that put me right in the first place, as at the time I was just as unaware. The end of the inspection and about 4 months of investigating and the said electrician was not prosecuted for any offence. I love Part P

 

[codamol]

Would a partial rewire require fire/smoke alarms fitted or is it only on a complete rewire(and new build of course) that they would be a requirement?

Because if i was just rewiring customer's lounge sockets, i dont think they really want whole house disturbing to fit alarms at each level/room.

 

[batty]

Strange this I am doing a kitchen refurbishment and utility refurbishement at the moment with building control invoved now I said about putting mainns smokes in but the building inspector said they were not required which suprised me.

 

[sparky999]

Yeah crazy batty i think some building inspectors have different ideas, recentley did a new installation and on the plans it never stated a heat alarm in the kitchen as the building inspector was coming out on the first day so i thought i would ask the answer was put them wherever!!!!

 

[batty]

I do wonder with building inspectors doing an extension at BILaws at moment building inspector said consumer unit that is in store will need going in cupboard as there are exposed tails whats that all about and buy exposed I mean just going into meter?