Down Lighters

[shiner]

Hi guys, 

i have got to have a look at a job tomorrow and the customer wants down lighters. 

I know they have to have fire hoods. But is there any do's and dont's and what are good makes. Not sure how many there is going to be. Also he wants smoke alarms and heat alarm and a carbon alarm. I'm thinking the can come of the lighting circuit too. 

 

[Andy™]

. I know they have to have fire hoods.

no they dont.

maybe try reading 7671? thats if its been 'delivered' yet.

 

[Theorysparky]

smoke alarms

they don't have to

Shiner under what circumstances to you need to use fire hoods ???

 

[shiner]

I have read somewhere that they are a possible fire hazard and should be protected. I did look in bs7671 but couldn't see anything relaying to it. 

Theory. I know the alarms cn come off a separate circuit but just thinking about saving some time and making it easier. Although haven't seen sight yet to actually decide yet

 

[ProDave]

The point of a fire rated downlight, is to maintain the integrity of a fire rated ceiling, i.e to stop a fire spreading.  Only needed if the ceiling is fire rated, which the average single sheet ordinary plasterboard ceiling is NOT.

It has nothing to do with stopping the heat from a downlight starting a fire. That's down to correct installation, i.e giving it enough space from joists etc and not covering it with insulation.

One of the reasons I hate downlights so much, is they force you to compromise the buildings insulation just to stop them becoming a fire hazard, and they compromise the buildings air tightness as well.

 

[shiner]

Thanks canoe boy will have a look. 

 

[Adrian]

One of the reasons I hate downlights so much, is they force you to compromise the buildings insulation just to stop them becoming a fire hazard, and they compromise the buildings air tightness as well.

no they don't if you install them correctly and use the correct ones

 

[Robin Laverick]

Hi guys, 

i have got to have a look at a job tomorrow and the customer wants down lighters. 

I know they have to have fire hoods. But is there any do's and dont's and what are good makes.

As mentioned above, the fire rated ceiling issue needs looking at in conjunction with 7671. Generally speaking though fire officers recommend fire-rated down-lighters (either integrated or standard ones with fire-hoods) in any ceilings where there is a living space above (inc bedrooms).

You can get a good die-cast fire-rated down-light with a decent LED lamp for around £9 now (less for pressed steel and a cheap lamp)

The most popular option currently are the integrated LED down-lights from the likes of Halers, JCC, Scolmore, Ansell etc where the light source is actually part of the fitting and also fire and acoustic rated. Prices for a decent brand range from £18 - £35 each.

Halogen is cheaper obviously but its getting harder to justify each fitting drawing 50W against 4-7W for the LED equivalent these days.

LED Down-light Examples

 

[Evans Electric]

Shiner , I see you're a DIYer but will be working for a customer .

Trust you are insured Shiney , as my mate was when he drilled a ceiling with his 75mm cutter  for downlights , as you will be, and cut into a heating pipe in the void,   black water everywhere, customer not amused to say the least.

Shytte happens.  

 

[shiner]

Evans I am insured thanks for thinking about that though. I have access to the loft where i can see everything. Ididn't get look at the job. But also found out that the board is about 30 years old. 

 

[Andy™]

Evans I am insured thanks for thinking about that though. I have access to the loft where i can see everything. Ididn't get look at the job. But also found out that the board is about 30 years old. 

well going by your previous posts, then if the board is 30 years old if definately needs a full re-wire.

 

[m4tty]

If your going to wire in 1.5mm t&e then make sure the downlighter you use accepts 2 x 1.5mm without difficultly and has decent size terminals. Also its nice if they have a terminal to park the cpc's if they're class 2.

 

[shiner]

I'm going there tomorrow Andy so ill be bile to get a better idea. 

M4tty tans for the advice 

 

[Doc Hudson]

Do 12v downlights still come under Part P notification (unless pre wired sets), or has that also changed with the amendment?

Doc H.

 

[Evans Electric]

Whats wrong with the 30 yr old board? 

I fitted loads of 'em ........30 yrs ago.

 

[steptoe]

I had one in my house when I moved in 5 years ago,

I only changed it and re-wired, cos I could, it didnt actually need it.

 

[Evans Electric]

I have one in my house , its fine .

Also I have no earth on my lighting circuits .......it seems to work fine without one .   Must dash downstairs and sticker the board to warn myself of the fact .

 

[steptoe]

hopefully the wife will decide to change that tube on the faulty florrie in the kitchen while its still switched on. 

 

[kerching]

My board must be about 40 years old.

ive lived here 33 years and my firm rewired the place well before we bought it ill change it one day

 

[shiner]

Hi guys I have looked at this job. The customer wants down lighters in every room on a top floor flat. So I was able to get into the loft. The existing cable is 1mm t&e.

the biggest room is 4.5m x 4.5m and in that room he wants 12 lights. The kitchen 9 hallway 6 bedrooms 7 & 8. The bathroom has them in already. He had bought all the lights which are 230v type. Working out the load quickly I think it will have to be on 2 circuits of 6A mcb.  The other concern is the cable size. If I run out the loop in 1.5 can I use 1mm for switching as it means I don't have to  chase out or struggle with 1.5 t&e 

the lights are also fire rated and can hold 2 cables in the clamp comfortably.