Downlight Fitting swap in ensuite

[martyj]

Hi all,

Another 1st project after i did all the lights in the lounge, hall and bedrooms - thanks to those who helped on that post.

Bit confused with this as firstly, the new fittings have no indication anywhere of what is the neutral wire and what is the live wire in the unit. Does it not matter when wiring to the ceiling? Surely i do not have to undo the sealed unit to see if they are coloured?

The new unit does not come with a transformer, so should i remove the transformer from the existing fittings, or use the fittings that are in place and just add them to the surrounds?

Next comes the issue with the current fittings (see 2nd set of pics). I have started to pull them out, and there appears to be no slack on the wire for me to access anything? I can see the screws, but not sure I can access them? Am i missing something?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Martin.

 

[Evans Electric]

(1)      Live & Neutral   not important on those fittings  Marty.

(2)     Bottom picture .  Is that all  the slack there is on the wires ??       Can you see a junction box up there  or are the wires clipped ?      How did the original installer  manage  I wonder .   From the pics he appears to be an idiot .     At the worst  you may end up lifting some floor above.  

(3)   There won't be any transformers on the originals  ,  lampholder looks like a GU10   which is mains .       Your new fittings look like LED   , the driver will be built into the fitting .    Is the hole in the ceiling  bigger or smaller than your new ones ?   

 

[martyj]

Hi Evans,

1) Thank you! In Laymans terms, why is this compared to the other ceiling lights i did?

2) unfortunately, I live kn a ground floor flat so working from above is not an option

it feels like there is no more slack, and im scared to pull harder. I have only looked at the one fitting though.

Also, its so dark in the ensuite, im guessing you use a decent torch to work while you turn the electrics off?!

 

[ProDave]

Often if you just slide the white heat proof sleeving back a little you will see brown and blue cables underneath.

As already mentioned for 12V lighting from a transformer it does not matter.

Why are you bothering with 12V lights? that's just one more thing to go wrong, I prefer mains LED lamps and forget 12V stuff.

If that really is all the slack you have you are going to struggle, not even enough slack to get it into a wago box to extend it.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

If there is another flat upstairs, all your ceiling downlights should really be fire rated, those bathroom ones don't appear to be.

 

[martyj]

If there is another flat upstairs, all your ceiling downlights should really be fire rated, those bathroom ones don't appear to be.

Hi Rob, the existing ones or the new ones?

There is defiitely a flat above! 2 levels in fact!

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Hi Rob, the existing ones or the new ones?

There is defiitely a flat above! 2 levels in fact!

Both existing and new are not fire rated, and they should be. The same manufacturer does a fire rated downlight http://www.valuelights.co.uk/fire-rated-gu10-chrome-downlight.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp5e9raaH2AIVq7DtCh2PHA5cEAQYASABEgIHofD_BwE

 

[Sharpend]

Wouldn't that depend on a the make up of the flats i.e. Concrete ceiling/floor partition between flats? 

Also do led lamps really need fire rating? 

 

[ProDave]

Fire rating i not about stopping the light fitting causing a fire, but maintaining the fire rating of  ceiling.

A piece of simple plasterboard has a fire rating of about 30 minutes. Cut a hole in it, you have destroyed that fire rating. Put a fire rated light fitting in the hole and you have restored the fire rating of the ceiling.

It is not required e.g between floors of a single dwelling, but between flats it will be.

 

[Sharpend]

Even if each is a sealed fire compartment in its own right? 

 

[ProDave]

Post Grenfell, I would NOT be wanting to put my name to anything that even slightly reduces the fire rating of a ceiling between 2 flats. It's not as though fire rated downlight fittings are expensive

 

[Sharpend]

Post Grenfell, I would NOT be wanting to put my name to anything that even slightly reduces the fire rating of a ceiling between 2 flats. It's not as though fire rated downlight fittings are expensive

I agree totally with you Dave I was just merely asking if it is necessary given the construction.  In reality the cost is neither here nor there to not bother with fire rated. 

 

[ProDave]

If the ceiling above is otherwise fire rated, e,g, solid concrete then it may well not need a fire rated fitting. But to determine that you have to become a surveyor. We are not surveyors, so for the small extra cost, fire rated all the time.

 

[Sharpend]

Odd that isn't it, we cover ourselves by spending a little more, the councils or was it the insulation cladders that spend a little less? Oh has anybody been prosecuted for that yet? 

 

[Blue Duck]

Odd that isn't it, we cover ourselves by spending a little more, the councils or was it the insulation cladders that spend a little less? Oh has anybody been prosecuted for that yet? 

Its appears to have been forgotten about..

Heres a reminder. <_<

 

[Evans Electric]

Don't hold your breath on a prosecution  Sharpie .      Theres a campaign in Brum,   gone on for years ,   to  prosecute  the actual Birmingham Pub Bombers ,  who , apparently are known to the authorities  but nothing ever happens ,  I don't think it ever will until they have died from natural causes .  

 

[Sharpend]

Its appears to have been forgotten about..

Heres a reminder. <_<

View attachment 8979

Yes i see on the news last week that  council had started removing some of the cladding then stopped part way through, can't remember the reason given for doing so either?

Don't hold your breath on a prosecution  Sharpie .      Theres a campaign in Brum,   gone on for years ,   to  prosecute  the actual Birmingham Pub Bombers ,  who , apparently are known to the authorities  but nothing ever happens ,  I don't think it ever will until they have died from natural causes .  

You are probably right there Evans, when you know something that may incriminate you say nothing until none can speak back. 

 

[Murdoch]

Odd that isn't it, we cover ourselves by spending a little more, the councils or was it the insulation cladders that spend a little less? Oh has anybody been prosecuted for that yet? 

Nobody will be prosecuted ................. the DCLG are keeping their heads down ................. and i think they should be held accountable .........

 

[martyj]

Strange then, so back in 2004 when this was built, and all the others on this development, it obviously wasnt in the regs to put fire rated fittings in, because none of the standard lights are so in any of the toilets and ensuites

 

[M107]

Post Grenfell, I would NOT be wanting to put my name to anything that even slightly reduces the fire rating of a ceiling between 2 flats. It's not as though fire rated downlight fittings are expensive

Quite..............